Anonymous
Post 12/27/2011 17:14     Subject: Why do European women have no children?
Anonymous wrote:The economy sucks. Jobs are difficult to come by. Finding housing is close to impossible. And b/c they can rely on family (b/c family means something to Europeans - unlike it does here), there's no pressure to move out.I have family who's proof of what I've written above.


And you think this is a good thing?

Right, there is nothing more attractive than a 28 year old still living at "home" with mama and daddy....
Anonymous
Post 12/27/2011 16:38     Subject: Re:Why do European women have no children?
OT but does anyone know any immigrants who a) were not well off before they came over, b) became US citizens or do not plan to return to their home country and c) do not or do not plan on having children?
Anonymous
Post 12/27/2011 16:34     Subject: Re:Why do European women have no children?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Obviously they do not value family.
America is the place where child deaths are higher than in Europe
America also is more open to immigration than other countries and our immigrants have a higher birth rate than native-borns.
Anonymous
Post 12/27/2011 16:20     Subject: Why do European women have no children?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In Italy the women don't have children because they know the men will do nothing to help raise the children and will cheat on them.


Do most of them get married? I am thinking having a heir is ultra important for most men although many do not seem to want the responsibility. So what do they do if their wives or many women do not want children? Do the poor, young, less educated women with less opportunities tend to get married because they might be more willing to have children?


The crude marriage rates in Italy (the number of marriages per 1,000 individuals in the population), fell between 1970 and 2007 from 7.35 to 4.21.
Anonymous
Post 12/27/2011 16:14     Subject: Why do European women have no children?
Anonymous wrote:In Italy the women don't have children because they know the men will do nothing to help raise the children and will cheat on them.


Do most of them get married? I am thinking having a heir is ultra important for most men although many do not seem to want the responsibility. So what do they do if their wives or many women do not want children? Do the poor, young, less educated women with less opportunities tend to get married because they might be more willing to have children?
Anonymous
Post 12/27/2011 16:13     Subject: Why do European women have no children?
Anonymous wrote:My family is Greek and I have many relatives (my mom and dad's brothers and sisters) living in Greece right now. The financial situation is dire. Many of my relatives were quite wealthy with second and third homes, household staff, luxury cars, etc. Now, they are all hurting.

That said, my married cousins in the 30-45 year old range have two to three children each. Most have two.

My Mom comes from a family of 8 and my Dad from a family of 5. They both grew up in Greece. I do not believe my grandparents practiced birth control. They were also very religious (Greek Orthodox).

For the poster who sites that people in Europe are less religious, I wouldn't say that goes for my Greek relatives. They all are much more religious than we are (we don't go to church) but I know that they are much more modern about their birth control.

So- from my experience I would say that the financial situation has something to do with it as well as "modernization." Most of my Greek girl cousin's work, as well, as their careers are important to them.



clearly your anecdotal evidence is off-target. The majority of greek women are not having "2 to 3" kids. and this has been going on far longer than the current economic struggles - Greek women were having less than 1.5 kids each back in the 90s and 2000s too.
Anonymous
Post 12/27/2011 16:11     Subject: Why do European women have no children?
Anonymous wrote:In Italy the women don't have children because they know the men will do nothing to help raise the children and will cheat on them.


And you're obviously an Italian?



Let me check with my cousins in the US and in Italy. and I'll get back to you.

Anonymous
Post 12/27/2011 16:11     Subject: Why do European women have no children?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:"ah, I think it is because of the selfishness of this ME ME ME generation. Sad. They will regret it, and they are destroying their societies as a result. "

sad that people limit their kid-making to the number they genuinely want (so children are wanted and not simply accepted) and actually afford? yeah, I suppose that's so sad. Everyone would be much better off to simply keep having babies regardless of the ability to support them!


sad that they think they want zero kids. these are wealthy countries, the families can support one or two kids each.


You are an idiot. There are NO FUCKING jobs in Europe. Have you seen the statistics in Greece? Can you locate Greece on a map? Greece is not a wealthy country. Greece is BROKE, Germany is going BROKE fast propping up FAILED states such a Greece. If your future is uncertain, housing is outrageous and there are NO JOBS, smart people don't have children they cannot support when they are having a hard time supporting themselves.

France anyone, riots?
UK?
Italy?


nice discourse. Germany is extremely wealthy. I think they have the 3rd largest economy in the world. And Greece is broke, but they are a "wealthy" nation in terms of per capita income and as a part of the EU. They are broke largely because of the benefits promised the old on the backs of the fewer young. And besides, your entire point is lost because these demographics issues were problems in the boom days as well as the current recession. Jobs have little to do with it. It is materialism and secularism and birth control. It is a choice.
Anonymous
Post 12/27/2011 16:10     Subject: Why do European women have no children?
Anonymous wrote:In Italy the women don't have children because they know the men will do nothing to help raise the children and will cheat on them.


Sounds a lot like the DC area!
Anonymous
Post 12/27/2011 16:09     Subject: Why do European women have no children?
My family is Greek and I have many relatives (my mom and dad's brothers and sisters) living in Greece right now. The financial situation is dire. Many of my relatives were quite wealthy with second and third homes, household staff, luxury cars, etc. Now, they are all hurting.

That said, my married cousins in the 30-45 year old range have two to three children each. Most have two.

My Mom comes from a family of 8 and my Dad from a family of 5. They both grew up in Greece. I do not believe my grandparents practiced birth control. They were also very religious (Greek Orthodox).

For the poster who sites that people in Europe are less religious, I wouldn't say that goes for my Greek relatives. They all are much more religious than we are (we don't go to church) but I know that they are much more modern about their birth control.

So- from my experience I would say that the financial situation has something to do with it as well as "modernization." Most of my Greek girl cousin's work, as well, as their careers are important to them.

Anonymous
Post 12/27/2011 16:05     Subject: Why do European women have no children?
In Italy the women don't have children because they know the men will do nothing to help raise the children and will cheat on them.
Anonymous
Post 12/27/2011 16:01     Subject: Why do European women have no children?
You know very little of Africa (which BTW is a continent, not a country).

Disease and stavation are the big killers in Africa, not "catastrophic conuntry killing" (not sure what that is anyways). Africa needs more babies to pay off debt? Africa needs birth control, plain and simple. I think you must be 12, not the generous 30 someone gave you earlier. And just a lesson for you, most African nations are in need of a revolution.

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:"ah, I think it is because of the selfishness of this ME ME ME generation. Sad. They will regret it, and they are destroying their societies as a result. "

sad that people limit their kid-making to the number they genuinely want (so children are wanted and not simply accepted) and actually afford? yeah, I suppose that's so sad. Everyone would be much better off to simply keep having babies regardless of the ability to support them!


sad that they think they want zero kids. these are wealthy countries, the families can support one or two kids each.


NO what is sad is people who have kids because they "think" that is what they should be doing or just because they can financially "support" them.

What is selfish is having children just "because" that is what everyone else is doing or just because you have money. Money and wealth does not buy the love of a child.

The decision to have children, IMO, should be based upon FIRST your desire to bring another human being into the planet, the desire should come from a genuine place and with lot of thought. SECONDLY you should be able to support those children and provide them with opportunity, which is based on your personal finances.

I respect people who choose not to have children. There are far too many people ALL OVER THE PLANET who have children that they cannot support. I'm from south Africa and there are far too many people having children all over Africa that they cannot support, feed, or care for. The number of orphans is tragic. In additiona to fighting malaria, they should be passing out copious amounts of birth control, probably in the form of IUD..


well, coming from Africa you are looking at this from a completely different perspective. One of too fast population growth as compared to catastrophic country killing population decreases. in 45 years the populations of these counties will have been cut in half - how can a small younger generation pay off the debts of an aged society? This kind of issue leads to revolution and war.

so it is selfish - selfish to your country and to your culture.

Anonymous
Post 12/27/2011 16:01     Subject: Re:Why do European women have no children?
Maybe this is how the turnover of world dominance takes place. Poor countries have too many children. The children grow up destitute, hungry and angry. They take over their countries and eventually get into wars with rich nations. The rich nations are able to hold them off for a while with their technological advances but they have limited armies. Eventually the sheer number of enemy soldiers and people win the wars and become the new rulers, wiping out the less populated former dominant powers.
Anonymous
Post 12/27/2011 15:56     Subject: Why do European women have no children?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:"ah, I think it is because of the selfishness of this ME ME ME generation. Sad. They will regret it, and they are destroying their societies as a result. "

sad that people limit their kid-making to the number they genuinely want (so children are wanted and not simply accepted) and actually afford? yeah, I suppose that's so sad. Everyone would be much better off to simply keep having babies regardless of the ability to support them!


sad that they think they want zero kids. these are wealthy countries, the families can support one or two kids each.


You are an idiot. There are NO FUCKING jobs in Europe. Have you seen the statistics in Greece? Can you locate Greece on a map? Greece is not a wealthy country. Greece is BROKE, Germany is going BROKE fast propping up FAILED states such a Greece. If your future is uncertain, housing is outrageous and there are NO JOBS, smart people don't have children they cannot support when they are having a hard time supporting themselves.

France anyone, riots?
UK?
Italy?
Anonymous
Post 12/27/2011 15:56     Subject: Why do European women have no children?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:"ah, I think it is because of the selfishness of this ME ME ME generation. Sad. They will regret it, and they are destroying their societies as a result. "

sad that people limit their kid-making to the number they genuinely want (so children are wanted and not simply accepted) and actually afford? yeah, I suppose that's so sad. Everyone would be much better off to simply keep having babies regardless of the ability to support them!


sad that they think they want zero kids. these are wealthy countries, the families can support one or two kids each.


NO what is sad is people who have kids because they "think" that is what they should be doing or just because they can financially "support" them.

What is selfish is having children just "because" that is what everyone else is doing or just because you have money. Money and wealth does not buy the love of a child.

The decision to have children, IMO, should be based upon FIRST your desire to bring another human being into the planet, the desire should come from a genuine place and with lot of thought. SECONDLY you should be able to support those children and provide them with opportunity, which is based on your personal finances.

I respect people who choose not to have children. There are far too many people ALL OVER THE PLANET who have children that they cannot support. I'm from south Africa and there are far too many people having children all over Africa that they cannot support, feed, or care for. The number of orphans is tragic. In additiona to fighting malaria, they should be passing out copious amounts of birth control, probably in the form of IUD..


well, coming from Africa you are looking at this from a completely different perspective. One of too fast population growth as compared to catastrophic country killing population decreases. in 45 years the populations of these counties will have been cut in half - how can a small younger generation pay off the debts of an aged society? This kind of issue leads to revolution and war.

so it is selfish - selfish to your country and to your culture.