Anonymous
12/28/2011 08:35
Subject: anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:How is an NDE proof of an afterlife if you don't need to be near death to experience one?
I'm the PP who lost all religious beliefs after experiencing an NDE. I didn't understand what it was at the time. The one thing it taught me is that death is not at all scary.
Why did you lose all religious belief?
After the experience, my priorities shifted. I had a moment of "oh, that's how it works" and my ideas of God and an afterlife quickly unraveled. It never seemed like a religious experience, either during or after. Gods have been blamed/credited with things we don't fully understand since the beginning of time. It seemed much more likely that an afterlife was the explanation for an experience. Maybe my perception would be different if I was near death at the time of the NDE. I did believe that I was about to die, which is one of the defining criteria.
My loss of religion may also have something to do with the incident that led to the NDE. It was at the hands of another person. When a complete stranger attacked me and tried to intentionally kill me, it skewed my view of an omnipotent creator and savior.
Anonymous
12/28/2011 07:44
Subject: anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
Anonymous wrote:How is an NDE proof of an afterlife if you don't need to be near death to experience one?
I'm the PP who lost all religious beliefs after experiencing an NDE. I didn't understand what it was at the time. The one thing it taught me is that death is not at all scary.
Why did you lose all religious belief?
Anonymous
12/28/2011 07:08
Subject: anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
How is an NDE proof of an afterlife if you don't need to be near death to experience one?
I'm the PP who lost all religious beliefs after experiencing an NDE. I didn't understand what it was at the time. The one thing it taught me is that death is not at all scary.
I'm the PP who lost all religious beliefs after experiencing an NDE. I didn't understand what it was at the time. The one thing it taught me is that death is not at all scary.
Anonymous
12/28/2011 01:40
Subject: anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Well how then to explain the 2 out of body experiences I had while asleep? I wasn't traumatized and I fully experienced my spirit re-entering my body (saw it but mostly felt it), which was a really powerful and bizarre feeling. Before re-entry I remember receiving some types of training while in dreams - the first time I was being encouraged by other "people" to float higher and higher in the night sky using my mind. The other time I was in a battle with 2 other almost cartoonish characters and was asked a question about what the most powerful force in the universe was and I said love. I received a feeling that this was the answer those I was "battling" wanted to hear.
My grandmother had a NDE when she had a heart attack. She too was up at the ceiling and saw the doctors working on her. DH almost drown but had an NDE, saw the light and heard voices telling him it wasn't his time even though he was more drawn to the voices than to stay alive.
It's very fascinating and I've had enough experiences with dead family members to believe that the spirit continues on in some form or another.
astral travel/projection
very cool!
I did this while awake a few times. Granted, I was on a TON of LSD, but it was still a neato experience.
Anonymous
12/28/2011 00:37
Subject: anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Not sure what you mean by "Do you believe in near death experiences?" Of course people experience what they experience, so it's like asking if you believe in deja vu.
Now, if you're asking if there's some sort of metaphysical explanation for NDEs, no, there's no evidence for that at all.
I am the OP. You can believe what you want. My husband is all about science; I'm all about spirituality. Perhaps there's a fine line? I'm not sure. I can, however, say that I've had prophetic dreams - even stupid ones such as dreaming about a cousin shopping for meat at our local market - one I hadn't seen for years - only to see her at that same store the morning of my dream. I've had death dreams - too many to file away. And some happened years before the actual death, but the dreams had a context, as in place and time.
There are many studies done on this - people sharing similar experiences. So yes, you can use science to prove it's a brain's reaction to trauma that all humans share. But I asked this earlier - How do you account for NDEs where people meet others they had not met during their lifetime? not in pictures, not in everyday conversations, not in paintings, etc. You simply can't.
That's where it's spiritual b/c no scientific study can get to the root of that.
I believe that anything is possible - that we're shells and we're simple beings at that. Sadly, so many humans think they're the center of the universe. They believe in a concrete world of boundaries where time limits us. Time is a construct. And I bet if we were able to use all of our brain power, we'd see "other worlds" right beside ours!
It's fascinating and actually redefines death for me - asin not being an ending, but being a new beginning.
I think it's touching that you believe all this stuff. More power to you. My daughter thinks that rainbows shine out of unicorn horns. Who am I to disabuse her. Just saying, most of this stuff is pretty well understood. I think some people get comfort in believing in things that are obviously debunked by a little rational thought. That doesn't mean they're "wrong" per se.
I always feel sorry for people like you - who can't stretch beyond our "reality." And if the afterlife reflects your current life, I imagine it's like a purgatory - stuck.
Funny, I don't feel sorry for you. I think it's great that you can go through life with that childlike wonder intact. Since the odds that there's an "afterlife" are staggeringly remote, and it's just as likely that an afterlife would be horrifyingly bad as that it would be marvelously wonderful, I'd just as soon skip it. In any case, I won't spend a lot of my time worrying about that.
Different poster. How are you so certain that there is no afterlife? Have you met someone who is dead who confirmed this? It seems to me there's no proof one way or the other.
Just to clarify, I didn't say there is no "afterlife", only that it's very unlikely. Like infitisimally unlikely. And if there were, it's just as likely to be horrific as blissful.
I don't care about who here believes or disbelieves in the afterlife. The earlier poster described the ability to see into the future. That flat out defies the laws of physics. And, if it were true, it would mean that fate, not free will, determines what happens to us. And that is a pretty damaging blow to Christian religion.
So the way I see it, the poster shot a dart at both science and religion, without even knowing it.
Anonymous
12/27/2011 23:30
Subject: anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Not sure what you mean by "Do you believe in near death experiences?" Of course people experience what they experience, so it's like asking if you believe in deja vu.
Now, if you're asking if there's some sort of metaphysical explanation for NDEs, no, there's no evidence for that at all.
I am the OP. You can believe what you want. My husband is all about science; I'm all about spirituality. Perhaps there's a fine line? I'm not sure. I can, however, say that I've had prophetic dreams - even stupid ones such as dreaming about a cousin shopping for meat at our local market - one I hadn't seen for years - only to see her at that same store the morning of my dream. I've had death dreams - too many to file away. And some happened years before the actual death, but the dreams had a context, as in place and time.
There are many studies done on this - people sharing similar experiences. So yes, you can use science to prove it's a brain's reaction to trauma that all humans share. But I asked this earlier - How do you account for NDEs where people meet others they had not met during their lifetime? not in pictures, not in everyday conversations, not in paintings, etc. You simply can't.
That's where it's spiritual b/c no scientific study can get to the root of that.
I believe that anything is possible - that we're shells and we're simple beings at that. Sadly, so many humans think they're the center of the universe. They believe in a concrete world of boundaries where time limits us. Time is a construct. And I bet if we were able to use all of our brain power, we'd see "other worlds" right beside ours!
It's fascinating and actually redefines death for me - asin not being an ending, but being a new beginning.
I think it's touching that you believe all this stuff. More power to you. My daughter thinks that rainbows shine out of unicorn horns. Who am I to disabuse her. Just saying, most of this stuff is pretty well understood. I think some people get comfort in believing in things that are obviously debunked by a little rational thought. That doesn't mean they're "wrong" per se.
I always feel sorry for people like you - who can't stretch beyond our "reality." And if the afterlife reflects your current life, I imagine it's like a purgatory - stuck.
Funny, I don't feel sorry for you. I think it's great that you can go through life with that childlike wonder intact. Since the odds that there's an "afterlife" are staggeringly remote, and it's just as likely that an afterlife would be horrifyingly bad as that it would be marvelously wonderful, I'd just as soon skip it. In any case, I won't spend a lot of my time worrying about that.
Different poster. How are you so certain that there is no afterlife? Have you met someone who is dead who confirmed this? It seems to me there's no proof one way or the other.
Just to clarify, I didn't say there is no "afterlife", only that it's very unlikely. Like infitisimally unlikely. And if there were, it's just as likely to be horrific as blissful.
Anonymous
12/27/2011 22:18
Subject: anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Not sure what you mean by "Do you believe in near death experiences?" Of course people experience what they experience, so it's like asking if you believe in deja vu.
Now, if you're asking if there's some sort of metaphysical explanation for NDEs, no, there's no evidence for that at all.
I am the OP. You can believe what you want. My husband is all about science; I'm all about spirituality. Perhaps there's a fine line? I'm not sure. I can, however, say that I've had prophetic dreams - even stupid ones such as dreaming about a cousin shopping for meat at our local market - one I hadn't seen for years - only to see her at that same store the morning of my dream. I've had death dreams - too many to file away. And some happened years before the actual death, but the dreams had a context, as in place and time.
There are many studies done on this - people sharing similar experiences. So yes, you can use science to prove it's a brain's reaction to trauma that all humans share. But I asked this earlier - How do you account for NDEs where people meet others they had not met during their lifetime? not in pictures, not in everyday conversations, not in paintings, etc. You simply can't.
That's where it's spiritual b/c no scientific study can get to the root of that.
I believe that anything is possible - that we're shells and we're simple beings at that. Sadly, so many humans think they're the center of the universe. They believe in a concrete world of boundaries where time limits us. Time is a construct. And I bet if we were able to use all of our brain power, we'd see "other worlds" right beside ours!
It's fascinating and actually redefines death for me - asin not being an ending, but being a new beginning.
I think it's touching that you believe all this stuff. More power to you. My daughter thinks that rainbows shine out of unicorn horns. Who am I to disabuse her. Just saying, most of this stuff is pretty well understood. I think some people get comfort in believing in things that are obviously debunked by a little rational thought. That doesn't mean they're "wrong" per se.
It is true that pp cannot prove that her interpretation of her experience is correct. However, you cannot prove that your view is correct, either. Scientists have a "theory" that NDE's are simply the effect of chemicals on the brain, etc etc. But it is just that -- a theory. It cannot be proven, either.
Anonymous
12/27/2011 22:17
Subject: anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
I think the Hadron super collider is going to finally bring science and some of what we're discussing together.
We still may not ultimately know the answer until after we die.
At the same time there's so much that's being discovered or investigated on a wide variety of related topics like the nature of time, multiverses, reincarnation. Right here in VA, there was a professor who recorded stories from around the world about reincarnation which are just plain fascinating.
There's also been a lot of news recently about how scientists can "see" what people are thinking - generating the images (still hazy but it will improve) via MRIs (if I'm recalling it correctly). I was just reading an Economist from a few months ago that talked about how they can get lucid dreamers to do stuff like squeeze a certain hand and it gets picked up and the scientists can tell which hand it was - right or left. Crazy stuff!
We still may not ultimately know the answer until after we die.
At the same time there's so much that's being discovered or investigated on a wide variety of related topics like the nature of time, multiverses, reincarnation. Right here in VA, there was a professor who recorded stories from around the world about reincarnation which are just plain fascinating.
There's also been a lot of news recently about how scientists can "see" what people are thinking - generating the images (still hazy but it will improve) via MRIs (if I'm recalling it correctly). I was just reading an Economist from a few months ago that talked about how they can get lucid dreamers to do stuff like squeeze a certain hand and it gets picked up and the scientists can tell which hand it was - right or left. Crazy stuff!
Anonymous
12/27/2011 22:03
Subject: anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
Read "Journey of Souls"!
Anonymous
12/27/2011 20:54
Subject: anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Not sure what you mean by "Do you believe in near death experiences?" Of course people experience what they experience, so it's like asking if you believe in deja vu.
Now, if you're asking if there's some sort of metaphysical explanation for NDEs, no, there's no evidence for that at all.
I am the OP. You can believe what you want. My husband is all about science; I'm all about spirituality. Perhaps there's a fine line? I'm not sure. I can, however, say that I've had prophetic dreams - even stupid ones such as dreaming about a cousin shopping for meat at our local market - one I hadn't seen for years - only to see her at that same store the morning of my dream. I've had death dreams - too many to file away. And some happened years before the actual death, but the dreams had a context, as in place and time.
There are many studies done on this - people sharing similar experiences. So yes, you can use science to prove it's a brain's reaction to trauma that all humans share. But I asked this earlier - How do you account for NDEs where people meet others they had not met during their lifetime? not in pictures, not in everyday conversations, not in paintings, etc. You simply can't.
That's where it's spiritual b/c no scientific study can get to the root of that.
I believe that anything is possible - that we're shells and we're simple beings at that. Sadly, so many humans think they're the center of the universe. They believe in a concrete world of boundaries where time limits us. Time is a construct. And I bet if we were able to use all of our brain power, we'd see "other worlds" right beside ours!
It's fascinating and actually redefines death for me - asin not being an ending, but being a new beginning.
I think it's touching that you believe all this stuff. More power to you. My daughter thinks that rainbows shine out of unicorn horns. Who am I to disabuse her. Just saying, most of this stuff is pretty well understood. I think some people get comfort in believing in things that are obviously debunked by a little rational thought. That doesn't mean they're "wrong" per se.
I always feel sorry for people like you - who can't stretch beyond our "reality." And if the afterlife reflects your current life, I imagine it's like a purgatory - stuck.
Funny, I don't feel sorry for you. I think it's great that you can go through life with that childlike wonder intact. Since the odds that there's an "afterlife" are staggeringly remote, and it's just as likely that an afterlife would be horrifyingly bad as that it would be marvelously wonderful, I'd just as soon skip it. In any case, I won't spend a lot of my time worrying about that.
Different poster. How are you so certain that there is no afterlife? Have you met someone who is dead who confirmed this? It seems to me there's no proof one way or the other.
Anonymous
12/27/2011 19:03
Subject: anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Not sure what you mean by "Do you believe in near death experiences?" Of course people experience what they experience, so it's like asking if you believe in deja vu.
Now, if you're asking if there's some sort of metaphysical explanation for NDEs, no, there's no evidence for that at all.
I am the OP. You can believe what you want. My husband is all about science; I'm all about spirituality. Perhaps there's a fine line? I'm not sure. I can, however, say that I've had prophetic dreams - even stupid ones such as dreaming about a cousin shopping for meat at our local market - one I hadn't seen for years - only to see her at that same store the morning of my dream. I've had death dreams - too many to file away. And some happened years before the actual death, but the dreams had a context, as in place and time.
There are many studies done on this - people sharing similar experiences. So yes, you can use science to prove it's a brain's reaction to trauma that all humans share. But I asked this earlier - How do you account for NDEs where people meet others they had not met during their lifetime? not in pictures, not in everyday conversations, not in paintings, etc. You simply can't.
That's where it's spiritual b/c no scientific study can get to the root of that.
I believe that anything is possible - that we're shells and we're simple beings at that. Sadly, so many humans think they're the center of the universe. They believe in a concrete world of boundaries where time limits us. Time is a construct. And I bet if we were able to use all of our brain power, we'd see "other worlds" right beside ours!
It's fascinating and actually redefines death for me - asin not being an ending, but being a new beginning.
I think it's touching that you believe all this stuff. More power to you. My daughter thinks that rainbows shine out of unicorn horns. Who am I to disabuse her. Just saying, most of this stuff is pretty well understood. I think some people get comfort in believing in things that are obviously debunked by a little rational thought. That doesn't mean they're "wrong" per se.
I always feel sorry for people like you - who can't stretch beyond our "reality." And if the afterlife reflects your current life, I imagine it's like a purgatory - stuck.
Funny, I don't feel sorry for you. I think it's great that you can go through life with that childlike wonder intact. Since the odds that there's an "afterlife" are staggeringly remote, and it's just as likely that an afterlife would be horrifyingly bad as that it would be marvelously wonderful, I'd just as soon skip it. In any case, I won't spend a lot of my time worrying about that.
Anonymous
12/27/2011 18:56
Subject: anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Not sure what you mean by "Do you believe in near death experiences?" Of course people experience what they experience, so it's like asking if you believe in deja vu.
Now, if you're asking if there's some sort of metaphysical explanation for NDEs, no, there's no evidence for that at all.
I am the OP. You can believe what you want. My husband is all about science; I'm all about spirituality. Perhaps there's a fine line? I'm not sure. I can, however, say that I've had prophetic dreams - even stupid ones such as dreaming about a cousin shopping for meat at our local market - one I hadn't seen for years - only to see her at that same store the morning of my dream. I've had death dreams - too many to file away. And some happened years before the actual death, but the dreams had a context, as in place and time.
There are many studies done on this - people sharing similar experiences. So yes, you can use science to prove it's a brain's reaction to trauma that all humans share. But I asked this earlier - How do you account for NDEs where people meet others they had not met during their lifetime? not in pictures, not in everyday conversations, not in paintings, etc. You simply can't.
That's where it's spiritual b/c no scientific study can get to the root of that.
I believe that anything is possible - that we're shells and we're simple beings at that. Sadly, so many humans think they're the center of the universe. They believe in a concrete world of boundaries where time limits us. Time is a construct. And I bet if we were able to use all of our brain power, we'd see "other worlds" right beside ours!
It's fascinating and actually redefines death for me - asin not being an ending, but being a new beginning.
I think it's touching that you believe all this stuff. More power to you. My daughter thinks that rainbows shine out of unicorn horns. Who am I to disabuse her. Just saying, most of this stuff is pretty well understood. I think some people get comfort in believing in things that are obviously debunked by a little rational thought. That doesn't mean they're "wrong" per se.
I always feel sorry for people like you - who can't stretch beyond our "reality." And if the afterlife reflects your current life, I imagine it's like a purgatory - stuck.
Anonymous
12/27/2011 18:46
Subject: anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Not sure what you mean by "Do you believe in near death experiences?" Of course people experience what they experience, so it's like asking if you believe in deja vu.
Now, if you're asking if there's some sort of metaphysical explanation for NDEs, no, there's no evidence for that at all.
I am the OP. You can believe what you want. My husband is all about science; I'm all about spirituality. Perhaps there's a fine line? I'm not sure. I can, however, say that I've had prophetic dreams - even stupid ones such as dreaming about a cousin shopping for meat at our local market - one I hadn't seen for years - only to see her at that same store the morning of my dream. I've had death dreams - too many to file away. And some happened years before the actual death, but the dreams had a context, as in place and time.
There are many studies done on this - people sharing similar experiences. So yes, you can use science to prove it's a brain's reaction to trauma that all humans share. But I asked this earlier - How do you account for NDEs where people meet others they had not met during their lifetime? not in pictures, not in everyday conversations, not in paintings, etc. You simply can't.
That's where it's spiritual b/c no scientific study can get to the root of that.
I believe that anything is possible - that we're shells and we're simple beings at that. Sadly, so many humans think they're the center of the universe. They believe in a concrete world of boundaries where time limits us. Time is a construct. And I bet if we were able to use all of our brain power, we'd see "other worlds" right beside ours!
It's fascinating and actually redefines death for me - asin not being an ending, but being a new beginning.
I think it's touching that you believe all this stuff. More power to you. My daughter thinks that rainbows shine out of unicorn horns. Who am I to disabuse her. Just saying, most of this stuff is pretty well understood. I think some people get comfort in believing in things that are obviously debunked by a little rational thought. That doesn't mean they're "wrong" per se.
Anonymous
12/27/2011 18:44
Subject: anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
Anonymous wrote:Well how then to explain the 2 out of body experiences I had while asleep? I wasn't traumatized and I fully experienced my spirit re-entering my body (saw it but mostly felt it), which was a really powerful and bizarre feeling. Before re-entry I remember receiving some types of training while in dreams - the first time I was being encouraged by other "people" to float higher and higher in the night sky using my mind. The other time I was in a battle with 2 other almost cartoonish characters and was asked a question about what the most powerful force in the universe was and I said love. I received a feeling that this was the answer those I was "battling" wanted to hear.
My grandmother had a NDE when she had a heart attack. She too was up at the ceiling and saw the doctors working on her. DH almost drown but had an NDE, saw the light and heard voices telling him it wasn't his time even though he was more drawn to the voices than to stay alive.
It's very fascinating and I've had enough experiences with dead family members to believe that the spirit continues on in some form or another.
astral travel/projection
very cool!
Anonymous
12/27/2011 18:23
Subject: anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
Well how then to explain the 2 out of body experiences I had while asleep? I wasn't traumatized and I fully experienced my spirit re-entering my body (saw it but mostly felt it), which was a really powerful and bizarre feeling. Before re-entry I remember receiving some types of training while in dreams - the first time I was being encouraged by other "people" to float higher and higher in the night sky using my mind. The other time I was in a battle with 2 other almost cartoonish characters and was asked a question about what the most powerful force in the universe was and I said love. I received a feeling that this was the answer those I was "battling" wanted to hear.
My grandmother had a NDE when she had a heart attack. She too was up at the ceiling and saw the doctors working on her. DH almost drown but had an NDE, saw the light and heard voices telling him it wasn't his time even though he was more drawn to the voices than to stay alive.
It's very fascinating and I've had enough experiences with dead family members to believe that the spirit continues on in some form or another.
My grandmother had a NDE when she had a heart attack. She too was up at the ceiling and saw the doctors working on her. DH almost drown but had an NDE, saw the light and heard voices telling him it wasn't his time even though he was more drawn to the voices than to stay alive.
It's very fascinating and I've had enough experiences with dead family members to believe that the spirit continues on in some form or another.