Thank you for posting test data - very helpful.

And I had to LOL about the umbrella story. I lose my umbrellas ALL of the time. And I did have one "stolen" from an event in DC with very affluent parents. So it can happen anywhere - they can get switched up really easily.

Anonymous wrote:

Interesting. Can you post the link or direct us to the source of test scores disaggregated by ethnicity and/or income that demonstrate that upper-middle income Barrett kids score equivalently to their peers at other North Arlington schools. Curious given the long-standing research that everyone (including middle income+kids) generally score lower in majority low-income schools.

I'm not the PPP, but roughly half of Barrett students come from affluent backgrounds which I believe is more than sufficient for a comfortable learning environment for all students. But that is my opinion.

Here is a quick comparison of the SOL test results between Barrett and one of N Arlington's most affluent neighborhood schools, Taylor:

According to the Barrett's "report card" on the VA DOE website, between 98-100% of white students passed the SOLs in the various categories (i.e. Math, Science, etc). For grade 3 roughly 80% of white students tested at the advanced level on all subjects, on average.

At Taylor Elementary, a school that serves some of the most affluent neighborhoods in N Arlington, between 95-97% of white students passed the SOLs in the various categories. For grade 3 roughly 65% of white students tested at the advanced level on all subjects.

Both schools scored well above the state average for white students in all the categories I reviewed (I may have missed a few, there is a lot of data on those report card pdfs).

Barrett not making AYP has nothing to do with the scores of its white student population, which has more students scoring at the advanced level than at Taylor. (I looked at the 2010-11 scores.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been a PP in the Barrett conversation...bought into some of the high-end new development in Buckingham. Am opting for private; seems nearly impossible to even consider public, unless I accepted Barrett...which for a variety of the reasons discuss doesn't meet our standards (we are very picky on education and for all the boosting of local middle/upper-middle income parents, Barrett doesn't sell for us)...we would have absolutely taken some of the other APS schools, but it seems almost impossible to have any school choice given overcrowding/demand. Luckily we went in knowing we could afford private so we don't mind so much....

I'm thinking some of the folks buying into Arlington Forest would be stretching their budget already and getting into the only reasonable N Arlington option available to them, so privates would often not be an option.... and given the APS situation at present, they may not realistically be able to consider any other APS options. I thought, however, once upon a time parents automatically had an option to opt out of a Title I school....is this true or just a rumor?

I think people simply get scared away by the idea of their "white" and/or "upper middle class" kids (because there are a lot of ethnic minority kids who are definitely part of the upper middle class and/or Arlington Forest neighborhood contingent) going to school with majority "minority" and "lower class" kids. These same people look at the test scores and think Barrett is a "weak" school. The fact is, if you look at the test scores, the "white" and "upper middle class" kids do JUST as well on their testing as "white" and "upper middle class" kids at all the other North Arlington schools.

Interesting. Can you post the link or direct us to the source of test scores disaggregated by ethnicity and/or income that demonstrate that upper-middle income Barrett kids score equivalently to their peers at other North Arlington schools. Curious given the long-standing research that everyone (including middle income+kids) generally score lower in majority low-income schools.

Agree with the pp.

Anonymous wrote:I've been a PP in the Barrett conversation...bought into some of the high-end new development in Buckingham. Am opting for private; seems nearly impossible to even consider public, unless I accepted Barrett...which for a variety of the reasons discuss doesn't meet our standards (we are very picky on education and for all the boosting of local middle/upper-middle income parents, Barrett doesn't sell for us)...we would have absolutely taken some of the other APS schools, but it seems almost impossible to have any school choice given overcrowding/demand. Luckily we went in knowing we could afford private so we don't mind so much....

I'm thinking some of the folks buying into Arlington Forest would be stretching their budget already and getting into the only reasonable N Arlington option available to them, so privates would often not be an option.... and given the APS situation at present, they may not realistically be able to consider any other APS options. I thought, however, once upon a time parents automatically had an option to opt out of a Title I school....is this true or just a rumor?

Actually, both last year and this year Barrett families had the option to transfer their children because Barrett had not made "adequate yearly progress" for a couple of years in a row. Two years ago, the transfer options were (I think) Ashlawn and Campbell. This year, I think they were Ashlawn and Patrick Henry. I only know of one family who took the opportunity to transfer two years ago. I feel like most parents who have decided they don't like Barrett as an option for their kids try very hard to get ATS or Key, and many of them do. Campbell was also an option at one time (not sure if it is any more) so it's faulty to say that Barrett families are "stuck" with Barrett.

Yes, Barrett is a Title I school. Yes, more than half the kids get free/reduced lunch. Yes, a lot of the kids come from non-English-speaking households and don't speak English as a first language. Someone keeps trying to get me, or some other parent, to say that this causes major "problems" for my child's education but to date, it simply hasn't. The children get grouped within their classrooms and are working on their level. My child, and others, have been offered the chance to do extra work in math since they have shown interest and aptitude. The parents I know are very involved, and school events seem well-attended. There is a very positive atmosphere and teachers and administrators work together well. Teachers and parents and students seem happy.

My only negative experience in 3 years at the school is that one time my child took an umbrella to school and it got lost and I suspect it was probably stolen. I think it got left in the cafeteria, didn't have our name on it, and some other child probably liked it and took it home - it never turned up in the lost and found. I figured it probably would never have been taken in a school with higher-income kids, because they all probably would've had their own, much nicer, umbrellas. But that's all I can come up with, and is hardly a negative impact on education, and still probably could've happened in any environment.

I think people simply get scared away by the idea of their "white" and/or "upper middle class" kids (because there are a lot of ethnic minority kids who are definitely part of the upper middle class and/or Arlington Forest neighborhood contingent) going to school with majority "minority" and "lower class" kids. These same people look at the test scores and think Barrett is a "weak" school. The fact is, if you look at the test scores, the "white" and "upper middle class" kids do JUST as well on their testing as "white" and "upper middle class" kids at all the other North Arlington schools.

Anonymous wrote:I've been a PP in the Barrett conversation...bought into some of the high-end new development in Buckingham. Am opting for private; seems nearly impossible to even consider public, unless I accepted Barrett...which for a variety of the reasons discuss doesn't meet our standards (we are very picky on education and for all the boosting of local middle/upper-middle income parents, Barrett doesn't sell for us)...we would have absolutely taken some of the other APS schools, but it seems almost impossible to have any school choice given overcrowding/demand. Luckily we went in knowing we could afford private so we don't mind so much....

I'm thinking some of the folks buying into Arlington Forest would be stretching their budget already and getting into the only reasonable N Arlington option available to them, so privates would often not be an option.... and given the APS situation at present, they may not realistically be able to consider any other APS options. I thought, however, once upon a time parents automatically had an option to opt out of a Title I school....is this true or just a rumor?

This just sounds like snobbery. There are options like Drew Montessori and Claremont, as well as ATS. While ATS is hard to get into, Claremont still is a pretty good bet, lottery-wise. But heck, why not just move into the Nottingham, Tuckahoe or Taylor districts -- lots of varied housing options and the market in N Arlington is still strong.

I've been a PP in the Barrett conversation...bought into some of the high-end new development in Buckingham. Am opting for private; seems nearly impossible to even consider public, unless I accepted Barrett...which for a variety of the reasons discuss doesn't meet our standards (we are very picky on education and for all the boosting of local middle/upper-middle income parents, Barrett doesn't sell for us)...we would have absolutely taken some of the other APS schools, but it seems almost impossible to have any school choice given overcrowding/demand. Luckily we went in knowing we could afford private so we don't mind so much....

I'm thinking some of the folks buying into Arlington Forest would be stretching their budget already and getting into the only reasonable N Arlington option available to them, so privates would often not be an option.... and given the APS situation at present, they may not realistically be able to consider any other APS options. I thought, however, once upon a time parents automatically had an option to opt out of a Title I school....is this true or just a rumor?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in the Barrett district among some very well-educated and paid neighbors, all of whom send their kids to Barrett and are happy. In fact, I can't think of anyone in my neighborhood who goes to private school or some other option. My kids are not yet school age, but I see no reason not to send them to Barrett.

We have one child at Barrett and will have another soon. We have lived in the neighborhood for eleven years. When we first moved here, people tried to avoid sending their kids to Barrett - many went to ATS (if they could get in) or Key, some went private, and my neighbors' girls went to Ashlawn. By the time we had a school-age child, however, the trend had completely reversed and now nearly everyone we know sends their kids to Barrett AND is very happy with it.

Our neighbors are well-educated professional people who want the best for their kids. Most have the means and the wherewithal to send their kids to whatever school they thought would be best for them, and most have chosen Barrett. The kids are learning, happy, thriving, and there is a strong core of involved parents, including parents of the lower-income kids.

The other North Arlington schools are also good - I've got nothing against Jamestown, Nottingham, Taylor, or any of the other schools - but I hate that people are always implying that Barrett is not a good school when they know nothing about it.

two counter thoughts - 1) due to crowding it's increasingly impossible to send your kids to alternative schools, compared to when you first moved there; 2) it's a pretty bold statement to say people have means to do whatever, but even so perhaps they choose to save the bullets for HS/college.

Thank you, PP, for sharing your experiences. Sound like the new principal is making some positive changes!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jamestown is typically considered the best of the neighborhood school. Check out the current issue of Arlington Magazine. It shows test scores for all of the Arlington Elem schools.

I know a few families that have been unhappy with Jamestown, despite its reputation.

I'm a longtime Jamestown parent. Over the years I had become increasingly unhappy with the direction the school was taking - the principal played favorites among the teachers and some of the strongest teachers at the school left to go to other Arlington schools. Academics at the school suffered as they were integrating the FLES (Spanish language) program into the curriculum and there was more and more "teaching to the test" (to improve falling SOLs scores). BUT the principal retired at the end of last year and the very smart, hardworking assistant principal became the new principal. I have already noticed a change at the school - there's better communication from both the administration and teachers, my child is doing more interesting and challenging work, and the responsive classroom program is taking root and creating a better social environment. Just comparing this year to last, the school seems better run and a happier place.

Jamestown still has the same strengths it's always had - high parental involvement, an active PTA with plenty of resources, a strong technology program, and safe school environment. We'll see how this year goes, but I'm hopeful that the new principal has changed the learning environment of the school and that it's back on the upswing.

From reading previous posts on Barrett and looking at the demographic changes over the past decade at the school, it seems that most middle and upper-middle class families in Arlington Forest's northern section embrace the school today, despite any lingering concerns some may have on the negative effects of high numbers of low income students.

50% low income may scare some families from buying in the neighborhood and possibly the PP, but I suspect that is the exception. Arlington Forest has become a very popular neighborhood for families looking for attractive homes in N Arlington for under $800,000.

What is interesting is how Barcroft, the neighborhood school that serves the portion of Arlington Forest in South Arlington, seems to have far fewer parent boosters. Barrett looks better than Barcroft on paper (in terms of the percentage of low income students and test scores), and Barrett's location in N Arlington may give it another advantage.

In conclusion, whatever the negative effects of low income students on the educational environment at Barrett, it doesn't seem to have much of an affect on the school's popularity as a neighborhood school. Barcroft, on the other hand seems to have an image problem for many families.

I don't know if the PP will find a Barrett parent on this board that will be able to objectively describe whatever negative effects the school's low income population has on the kids from affluent backgrounds. Are there more disciplinary issues? I can't find the data breakdown for that by school on the aps website. Barrett is a Title I school with a good reputation, and that's a good thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in the Barrett district among some very well-educated and paid neighbors, all of whom send their kids to Barrett and are happy. In fact, I can't think of anyone in my neighborhood who goes to private school or some other option. My kids are not yet school age, but I see no reason not to send them to Barrett.

We have one child at Barrett and will have another soon. We have lived in the neighborhood for eleven years. When we first moved here, people tried to avoid sending their kids to Barrett - many went to ATS (if they could get in) or Key, some went private, and my neighbors' girls went to Ashlawn. By the time we had a school-age child, however, the trend had completely reversed and now nearly everyone we know sends their kids to Barrett AND is very happy with it.

Our neighbors are well-educated professional people who want the best for their kids. Most have the means and the wherewithal to send their kids to whatever school they thought would be best for them, and most have chosen Barrett. The kids are learning, happy, thriving, and there is a strong core of involved parents, including parents of the lower-income kids.

The other North Arlington schools are also good - I've got nothing against Jamestown, Nottingham, Taylor, or any of the other schools - but I hate that people are always implying that Barrett is not a good school when they know nothing about it.

I believe this to an extent, and imagine the school quality has improved substantially over the years. However, can you honestly say that the school has no issues stemming from the fact that it is 54% low-income (2010 stats) and that in no way affects the learning environment. A lot of great schools in Arlington, like Science Focus, also have strong lower-income representation, but it's usually 20-30%. Barrett is a Title I school and over 50% low-income: are you saying this has no bearing on the educational environment whatsoever? What makes me skeptical is that folks like the PP don't present a balanced picture.....

Anonymous wrote:I live in the Barrett district among some very well-educated and paid neighbors, all of whom send their kids to Barrett and are happy. In fact, I can't think of anyone in my neighborhood who goes to private school or some other option. My kids are not yet school age, but I see no reason not to send them to Barrett.

We have one child at Barrett and will have another soon. We have lived in the neighborhood for eleven years. When we first moved here, people tried to avoid sending their kids to Barrett - many went to ATS (if they could get in) or Key, some went private, and my neighbors' girls went to Ashlawn. By the time we had a school-age child, however, the trend had completely reversed and now nearly everyone we know sends their kids to Barrett AND is very happy with it.

Our neighbors are well-educated professional people who want the best for their kids. Most have the means and the wherewithal to send their kids to whatever school they thought would be best for them, and most have chosen Barrett. The kids are learning, happy, thriving, and there is a strong core of involved parents, including parents of the lower-income kids.

The other North Arlington schools are also good - I've got nothing against Jamestown, Nottingham, Taylor, or any of the other schools - but I hate that people are always implying that Barrett is not a good school when they know nothing about it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are their concerns? We are house hunting right now and would love to hear about real experiences and not just test scores & % free lunches - neither seem very helpful in understanding what a school is really like. Thanks!

tell that to the poster who thinks Duncan's got some insider information on Arl schools to base his residence decision on.

My sister works for fairfax county government in their social programs and has access to data on schools that the general public does not have access to. It definitely was part of the decision on where she sent her kids. Somebody whose career is accessing schools would definitely know what things to look for in a great school--insider info or not.

Interesting. What kind of data was it?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are their concerns? We are house hunting right now and would love to hear about real experiences and not just test scores & % free lunches - neither seem very helpful in understanding what a school is really like. Thanks!

tell that to the poster who thinks Duncan's got some insider information on Arl schools to base his residence decision on.

My sister works for fairfax county government in their social programs and has access to data on schools that the general public does not have access to. It definitely was part of the decision on where she sent her kids. Somebody whose career is accessing schools would definitely know what things to look for in a great school--insider info or not.