OP, it sounds like you've spoken to other parents about this teacher and they agree that she's not up to the task. Why not go to the Principal with a couple of parents? Or, to the teacher herself? Why not tell her that your daughter has the impression that she's not liked and ask her to work through that with you?

Finally, when my parents brought her home later on that day, my mother asked how the PT conference went, and since DD was right there, I lied and said, "It was great. She said that she's really enjoyed having DD in her class, and that she shows a lot of promise." To that my 4 year old kind of chuckled incredulously and said, "No, she doesn't really like me. She was just joking with you."

No way your four year old has the ability to recognize and understand this alleged wrong.

We get it. You don't like the teacher. You'd like our sympathy in the teacher bashing. Fine, except this is not the way to get it.

I think what you're also seeing is that some of the - for lack of a better word let's call it "old school" - teachers think that the only way they'll get through the year with a bunch of rambunctious 3/4 year-olds is to appear mean and intimidating for the first couple of weeks. Having served as a substitute for no more than two hours in a classroom of 4 year-olds (I was completely out of my depth!) I can not entirely dismiss that this may be, if not the only, then at least one working strategy to get them to pay attention, even in a classroom that is full of centers and play/activity stations and dominated by exciting small group work. I've seen those teachers turn much "softer" after the first month or two. What you, OP, describe as today's feedback may well be the teacher exhaling after the first PT conference, which itself, and the time leading up to it, may well be very stressful and fraught with fear of getting off to a wrong start with the kids (and parents). Before you pass final judgement - and I'm not excluding that your original one is on point - I'd check in with her again. Make an appointment some time after school. Focus on first discussing your child in light of the modest feedback you've gotten so far. And then take some time to lay out what frustrates you. In doing so, speak for yourself and your child, not for others. Indeed, then also consider a meeting with the principal, not to complain but to ask how this situation could be resolved or mediated. In that conversation too, speak for yourself and your child.

I still think that the Principal is a missing element here. These issues need to be discussed and expectations framed. If this teacher really needs to go, their parent interaction is a piece the principal should be aware of.

Thanks for clarifying, OP. That does help me see your perspective a little better. I agree that at this age, making connections is important.

Anonymous wrote:Thank you, PP. From what I understand, OP thinks the teacher is "bad" and should be fired for two reasons:
1. Teacher doesn't allow parents to be in the classroom.
2. Teacher thinks children should be quiet and doesn't accurately explain each student's personalities to a parent in a PTC.

How does she teach? Isn't that more relevant in terms of job performance? It just seems like a personality conflict to me.

I'm not sure that, at the PK-4 level, the teacher's grasp of "the curriculum" is more important than they're inability to make a personal connection with at least most of their students. This teacher sounds like perhaps she's more suited to a job in a middle school somewhere.

Anonymous wrote:Thank you, PP. From what I understand, OP thinks the teacher is "bad" and should be fired for two reasons:
1. Teacher doesn't allow parents to be in the classroom.
2. Teacher thinks children should be quiet and doesn't accurately explain each student's personalities to a parent in a PTC.

How does she teach? Isn't that more relevant in terms of job performance? It just seems like a personality conflict to me.

OP here. If it's a "personality conflict", it's a personality conflict with numerous parents over multiple class years. While I think it's a problem if a teacher can't think of a single positive thing to say about a child in their class to that child's parent, that's not the main issue. The main issue is that the teacher has such poor interpersonal skills that a four year old child comes away knowing that the teacher doesn't like her.

It's actually pretty funny, perhaps she's overheard other parents talking, but we've never said anything negative around DD, but over dinner tonight, I asked her how their class went today, and whether everyone had a good day. And DD said her teacher was in a good mood. Actually, what she literally said was "You know, Ms ____ is a bad teacher, but she can be funny. A boy got an answer right today, and she picked him up and spun him around."

Having said that though, I'd add a #3 to PP's list:

3. Teacher has left multiple children in a class of four-year-olds with the impression that she doesn't like them. I only know 10 or 12 four year olds personally, but frankly, in my experience you've got to work pretty damned hard to do that.

Thank you, PP. From what I understand, OP thinks the teacher is "bad" and should be fired for two reasons:
1. Teacher doesn't allow parents to be in the classroom.
2. Teacher thinks children should be quiet and doesn't accurately explain each student's personalities to a parent in a PTC.

How does she teach? Isn't that more relevant in terms of job performance? It just seems like a personality conflict to me.

I agree with the thrust of previous arguments. But I'm not sure if one parent-teacher conference should be the basis to pass judgment on the "quality" of a teacher. First, be sure that the quality of the PT conference was truly that bad and not clouded by something that you came in with and didn't get an opportunity to express. In preschool and pre-K, the 15 min. you spend at this conference with the teacher should be characterized by you signing into a log and then reviewing your child's work with that teacher. Yes, this typically means that a lot of that many limited time is spent by the teacher explaining to you how your child does in school. Many schools have a so-called Gold Standards (or similar) assessment that your teacher should have ready for you on a print-out with supporting materials (maybe including photos or video-streams). These print-outs are a little hard to read but they give you an idea about where you child is both academically and socially. There is now an increasing emphasis placed in preschool and pre-K on developing social competence, which is also measured in these tests. It can be scary to find ones own or someone else's child under-performing on those aspects but its very reassuring to know that's what they're working on. Research has shown that this is totally crucial in their ability to keep absorbing the academic portion and growing in it. (I have an older child in elementary school and boy would I have liked to see more of that with them when they were that age!)

If this isn't roughly what you experienced, be that with or without pleasure and satisfaction, and you're sure the teacher just never got to presenting you all of this because you went in thinking you'd be the one talking, then there is a big missing piece that you should discuss with the principal. If this is roughly how you PT conference went, but you didn't hear what you expected, then you first need to sit down and go over those results. What do they mean? What you're looking it, is that a progress report (it's early in the year and and of course they're not all in the "green" area where they need to be by the end of the school year) or are there actual difficulties? Is your child having social or academic difficulties, in if so in what areas? How does it compare with how you experience your child at home? Then, once you've (cool-headedly) figured it out what to put the finger on, regardless of whether you like the teacher or not, you should go back and see if you can schedule a follow-up conference to discuss the results in more detail and see what measures can be taken. For example, my child's first PT conference in pre-K yielded that he was being contrarian and disruptive. Trust me, that wasn't something I liked to hear because (a) that's not how I experienced him and (b) I felt bad that he must be feeling bad at school. So I took that home and tried to figure out tools I could give the teacher to turn this negative course of action around. So I met with her again and said that she might want to try the kind of positive reinforcement methods we were using at home. Instead of calling him out on unwanted behavior, I suggested, she make an attempt for a couple of days to call him out on things he did well. At then end of that week, he came home with a chart full of smiley faces and was happy thereafter. And so was I, believe me. You know your child best but your teacher has your child in a very different setting from the one you see him/her at home. So the one-on-one problem-solving approach is totally crucial.

I'm not excluding that you're looking at a "bad" teacher but, as an earlier poster (moderator?) pointed out, IMPACT is in place, and truly "bad" teachers are not in the system. It's true that IMPACT is not working as well in the preschool pre-K setting as it is for higher grades. Still. But before you conclude that this is a truly "bad" teacher, be sure you've given the teacher the benefit of the doubt. While I admire a teacher who lets parents roam classrooms freely until way past the drop-off time, I also know from experience that this is very unsettling for children and disruptive to the schedule (e.g. they may leave at 9 am to a special and miss their crucial circle time because 16 parents feel the need to chat). So I completely understand a teacher making it clear that this is not the time for conversations or that he/she wants you to make an appointment, even if you choose the often better afterschool window to seek a chat. Also, many teachers are truly much better at interacting with the little bunch than with the parents, especially preschool teachers. Parents can be an intimidating bunch!
Our two children have been with more than one teacher who "are reluctant when it comes to parental involvement" and, despite my suspicion about it, those were often among the better years for them. I think it's because those teachers were just very focused on keeping to a routine and a schedule and did well what they do best, teach children (not adults). Not to say they couldn't make an attempt to learn the communications piece of it all; but I care more that my child is learning and growing emotionally and socially - and that growth is not linear! - than I do about whether I get along with that teacher.

In figuring this all out for yourself, be sure to do so away from your child or you'll turn this into a self-fulfilling prophecy. Your child looks to you about whether to feel challenged and satisfied at school. If you display the frustration you display here in front of him/her, then that'll be his/her year. You may decide that you're at a great school with your child having a teacher who you don't see eye to eye with but who you nevertheless respect and do your best to support. And then a couple of years later (I'm there that's why I say this) decide that maybe you didn't consider the fully complexity of all the pieces that go into teaching.

Anonymous wrote:

Last year, my neice had "that teacher." My sister was told she could not volunteer in the classroom or visit the classroom during the school day. She could only chaperone field trips.

this sounds fishy to me....i have never heard of a school (or at least, a DCPS) that wasn't champing at the bit to get parents as volunteers IN the classroom! teachers need the help and like the break. i wouldn't send my kid to a school that was not welcoming of volunteers. i'd at least talk to the principal.

It is amazing to me how many people view this as "fishy."

I'm the person who has posted a couple of times about our own bad teacher, who wasn't all that bad, but was very unwelcoming of parental involvement. OP (I think) asked what I wish I had done differently. Teacher never provided us with any contact info, and just in passing in January I mentioned in passing in a PTA meeting, that the principal attended, that we did not have a way to reach teacher. Most other parents chimed in that had full contact info for teacher. PRincipal did not say anything to me, but the very next day the teacher sent home a paper with full contact info for her on it.

If this is a case of waiting it out, maybe the principal just goes along with this bad teacher, which is a shame to me given the opportunities in the past few years to get rid of teachers - I don't think there will be the same opportunities in coming years.

But yes, PP, there are schools in DCPS that don't want volunteers in the classroom, or really don't want them until after the calendar year changes. There are teachers out there who actively work to limit communication. It stinks, but so far (jsut in 1st now, so 2 full years' experience under our belts), it's not been too disruptive of learning in these early years. But when i think of a bad teacher in 3rd, or 5th grade, or 7th grade, I just think I could not handle it. An entire year of bad teacher can not be good overall. It just can't.

I'm not the PP but my child also had a weak teacher in a well-regarded DCPS - first indicator for us was also a bizarre and extremely uncomfortable parent-teacher conference - and yeah, we hated her like poison. Our child spent an entire year not being challenged, not being pushed to excel, and not really learning much (by her own account). Because the academic literature shows that the effects of strong teaching are cumulative, it basically meant that the teacher stole a year of opportunity that will never be replaced.

Last year, my neice had "that teacher." My sister was told she could not volunteer in the classroom or visit the classroom during the school day. She could only chaperone field trips.

this sounds fishy to me....i have never heard of a school (or at least, a DCPS) that wasn't champing at the bit to get parents as volunteers IN the classroom! teachers need the help and like the break. i wouldn't send my kid to a school that was not welcoming of volunteers. i'd at least talk to the principal.

I don't think it'd be dissuading them, just giving them full knowledge. Isn't that a point of this forum? So we can share the goings ons at schools and likes and dislikes. There are many negative posts about YY, but that doesn't dissuade the hundreds of applicants each year. I like to know the nuts and bolts of each school. I won't allow a bad teacher to dissuade my decision as a whole, but will use it as a reference. I don't think it's fair to keep things like this or a bad PTA president for example a secret. Many other schools get exposed for the good and the bad.

Anonymous wrote:Why not name the school? If you were a parent intersted in using a lottery slot for this school, wouldn't you want peers to warn you? You don't have to name the teacher, but I don't understand why the school can't be named. TIA

OP here: Because the school is fantastic, and I'm interested in making it better, not worse. My hope is to add to the ammunition to get this teacher fired, limit the amount of damage she can do, and build the institution. If there's a parent who's interested in a lottery spot for this particular school, I'd be doing them a disservice by dissuading them.

Why not name the school? If you were a parent intersted in using a lottery slot for this school, wouldn't you want peers to warn you? You don't have to name the teacher, but I don't understand why the school can't be named. TIA