Anonymous
10/07/2011 22:19
Subject: Steve Jobs -- Can a Genius Raise Kids?
I don't think the "knew he was dying and only quit work six weeks earlier" poster has spent much time around those who are dying too young. Unfortunately, my husband may be in that category, and as a result, our circle contains others in similar position. Working as close to the end as possible is common. It is hard to say goodby to life when there is so much more to do. Plus, with cancer, yes, you are dying, and yes, you are terminal, but it can be years between diagnosis and death. You really don't know that you are at the end until you are damn close. Not a fair criticism.
Anonymous
10/07/2011 22:17
Subject: Re:Steve Jobs -- Can a Genius Raise Kids?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I agree with this and think about it a lot. It's like, some parents decide to quit jobs/tone down responsibility to give the kids everything time- and opportunity-wise, but they give up what THEIR parent did for them, right? I often think - ok, I'm 33, and my parents paid for my education, etc. So if I quit work to raise kids (and this is NOT meant to bash SAHM's), and give them everything, will they just do the same thing? And if so, why am I doing it? Hope this makes sense to someone, I know it's a bit convoluted.
I know exactly what you mean...you can go around in circles for hours with this thought process. I eventually broke out - this is my thinking: Unless you're Steve Jobs or Oprah Winfrey (to give a female example, although she has no husband/kids), when you die there aren't groups of strangers assessing your life's accomplishments. Even if they name a conference room or a scholarship after you when you die, what good does that do you? I've decided that life is really just a compilation of days and what's important is you are happy day-to-day, so I chose to do what I think will make me the most happy on a daily basis. Before anyone accuses me of being selfish, one of the things that makes me the most happy is happy kids and spending quality family time. I also like earning an income at a job with reasonable hours and nice people. So that's what I'm doing. I used to earn six figures and have a prestigious career but I wasn't happy.
This is an interesting discussion. I always find it interesting when people use the "when you die, your kids won't care about how much time you spent in the office" or groups of strangers or coworkers won't assess yur life's accomplishments and if they do what good does it do you? I always wonder because you're already gone so whichever path you took, it really doesn't do you any good anyway. Kwim?
We women really have touch decisions to make - it's not easy.
Anonymous
10/07/2011 22:00
Subject: Steve Jobs -- Can a Genius Raise Kids?
My guess is that if you are the child of a genius, at some point you realize that your family is not normal. I don't think that the standards that we apply to our children apply wholly to the children of well-known figures. Kudos to the SAH parent who provides some normalcy for their children, and to the children who are able to face with maturity and responsibility the unique pressures they must face.
I do think that SJ, even if we don't know much about him as a parent, did do an admirable job of keeping his family life private.
I do think that SJ, even if we don't know much about him as a parent, did do an admirable job of keeping his family life private.
Anonymous
10/07/2011 21:47
Subject: Steve Jobs -- Can a Genius Raise Kids?
I, too, am an imperfect parent. I will probably have some regrets about things I did imperfectly while raising my child.
Some of you need to cut Mr. Jobs some slack.
Some of you need to cut Mr. Jobs some slack.
Anonymous
10/07/2011 21:24
Subject: Steve Jobs -- Can a Genius Raise Kids?
Anonymous wrote:In all of this discussion, what I find strange are the SAHMs who are ignoring the very obvious fact that BECAUSE they choose to SAHM, their husbands - the fathers of their children - very likely feel much more pressure to succeed and likely spend much less time with their kids.
So why is this so admirable? My mother SAH with me and my siblings. And that was fine. But it meant I never saw my father. Perhaps I would have preferred her to work at least part time so some of the pressure was off my dad...
This is such a great point, and something I never really thought of before.
How old are Steve Jobs kids? I know he was private, but I wasn't able to find this out from googling!
Anonymous
10/07/2011 21:23
Subject: Re:Steve Jobs -- Can a Genius Raise Kids?
Meg Whitman, Carly Fiorina or Oprah, anyone? I read that Fiorina's DH became a SAHD while she brought home the bacon though.
Anonymous
10/07/2011 21:10
Subject: Steve Jobs -- Can a Genius Raise Kids?
In all of this discussion, what I find strange are the SAHMs who are ignoring the very obvious fact that BECAUSE they choose to SAHM, their husbands - the fathers of their children - very likely feel much more pressure to succeed and likely spend much less time with their kids.
So why is this so admirable? My mother SAH with me and my siblings. And that was fine. But it meant I never saw my father. Perhaps I would have preferred her to work at least part time so some of the pressure was off my dad...
So why is this so admirable? My mother SAH with me and my siblings. And that was fine. But it meant I never saw my father. Perhaps I would have preferred her to work at least part time so some of the pressure was off my dad...
Anonymous
10/07/2011 20:41
Subject: Steve Jobs -- Can a Genius Raise Kids?
PP here - that's "axe".
Yeah, throw the "H" word around a bit. What's next, the "N" word? Tha always gets 'em. Dumbass.
Yeah, throw the "H" word around a bit. What's next, the "N" word? Tha always gets 'em. Dumbass.
Anonymous
10/07/2011 20:40
Subject: Steve Jobs -- Can a Genius Raise Kids?
It sounds like OP has it with someone - has an awe to grind and is trying to compensate for his own UNDERaccomplishments. Not very well at that. MYOB instead of Steve Jobs - how about that?
Anonymous
10/07/2011 18:50
Subject: Re:Steve Jobs -- Can a Genius Raise Kids?
Anonymous wrote:PP here and I do the EXACT same thing.
I do admit that I find it kind of ironic when SAHM's push for their daughters to be in the BEST activities, go to the BEST schools, etc. What do you want for them that you didn't want for yourself? I know we all have choices to make, but it seems like it's worth discussion.
I'm not a SAHM but I think it would be to give their daughters options so they can decide for themselves which path they would like to choose. I dont think it's because the mothers didnt want those things for themselves......
My mom is one of those people that could have done anything but probably wanted to be SAHM or at least have the kind of job where she could be there. We ended up with the what I consider not a great situation. My mom had a job but not a career that didn't pay a whole lot but was nearby and I guess was needed to pay the bills. But neither parent had the flexibility to be there for field trips, classroom events etc. When I went to a school further away, there were games or practices I couldn't do because I had no ride home and my parents wouldn't let me take public transportation.
To me I push my kids to be the best in order to have choices in life. I've seen moms manage to be there for the soccer game and still have a fulfilling but family friendly career. I know there is some sort of compromise, maybe less money, maybe a mommy track where
you don't go for the promotion, maybe working remotely after the kids go to sleep. Usually though to be in a situation to even partially call your own shots or have flexibility you need to have strong skills in some area and a type A personality in your given field.
Anonymous
10/07/2011 18:41
Subject: Re:Steve Jobs -- Can a Genius Raise Kids?
It doesn't matter how smart or gifted or simple the parents are--what matters is how loving and selfless and giving and supportive the parents are.
If you're a self-centered, arrogant genius, or a tortured genius, or an absentminded professor genius, you're not a bad parent because you're a genius--you're a bad parent because you are selfish or mentally ill or living in your own mind, and unable to give of yourself to your children.
Now, there are some parents whose jobs require great sacrifice for their families. I'm thinking of a general my husband deployed with. He's a superb leader and a devoted husband and father...but he's gone ALL the time. He has to be. And his children and his wife suffer in his absence. When I would point an accusatory finger at him, my husband would say, if not him, then who? Some peoples' vocations call for great sacrifice. And their families can only do their best. As PP noted, everyone has free will. When difficult circumstances are forced upon us, because we love someone who has great responsibilities outside of the family, we can choose to rise to the occasion or fall apart.
I think of St. Gianna Molla often. A wife and mother, she was also an excellent doctor. But she was humble and quietly served EVERYONE who needed her, to the best of her abilities. And then she laid down her life for her child. The greatest act of selflessness and love there is. That's what every parent is called to do: to love.
How that love is expressed will depend on an individual's temperament, talents, and economic circumstances. But children know when they are loved. They know when their parents are selfish. Whether their parents work for money or not is not the determining factor of love versus self-absorption.
If you're a self-centered, arrogant genius, or a tortured genius, or an absentminded professor genius, you're not a bad parent because you're a genius--you're a bad parent because you are selfish or mentally ill or living in your own mind, and unable to give of yourself to your children.
Now, there are some parents whose jobs require great sacrifice for their families. I'm thinking of a general my husband deployed with. He's a superb leader and a devoted husband and father...but he's gone ALL the time. He has to be. And his children and his wife suffer in his absence. When I would point an accusatory finger at him, my husband would say, if not him, then who? Some peoples' vocations call for great sacrifice. And their families can only do their best. As PP noted, everyone has free will. When difficult circumstances are forced upon us, because we love someone who has great responsibilities outside of the family, we can choose to rise to the occasion or fall apart.
I think of St. Gianna Molla often. A wife and mother, she was also an excellent doctor. But she was humble and quietly served EVERYONE who needed her, to the best of her abilities. And then she laid down her life for her child. The greatest act of selflessness and love there is. That's what every parent is called to do: to love.
How that love is expressed will depend on an individual's temperament, talents, and economic circumstances. But children know when they are loved. They know when their parents are selfish. Whether their parents work for money or not is not the determining factor of love versus self-absorption.
Anonymous
10/07/2011 18:21
Subject: Steve Jobs -- Can a Genius Raise Kids?
Look OP, there are many very poor unaccomplished people out there who never see their kids because they are ALWAYS working. I don't care about SJ and his "time with the kids"
Anonymous
10/07/2011 18:18
Subject: Steve Jobs -- Can a Genius Raise Kids?
Anonymous wrote:
So, is this a thinly veiled post for Steve Jobs -bashers? I know plenty of idiots who can't pay attention and raise their kids on a good day. What about them, OP?
Really, Jobs contributed to our society in a way the bashers NEVER will. Just because he didn't find the cure for cancer doesn't mean he did not have a tremendous contribution to our society. You don't have to be a fanboy/girl to know he was a true innovator.
He was press savvy and chose his words wisely, as any good business owner does. So what? Let it go people, and worry about your own inept parenting. Stop picking on people who are so obviously out of your league, Steve Jobs or not.
Hitler was also an 'innovator' and also made a 'tremendous contribution to our society', albeit a heinous one. Some people consider Jobs to be an 'evil' genius. It is legitimate to ask if a genius can actually raise children. My guess would be unequivocally, no. The single mindedness of genius would not be compatible with being a responsible, engaged parent.
Anonymous
10/07/2011 17:57
Subject: Steve Jobs -- Can a Genius Raise Kids?
Anonymous wrote:Steve Jobs knew he was dying but only quit work 6 weeks ago. If I was his kid, I'd be pretty resentful about that.
I would be thinking, my dad cared far more about his job than he did with me and he gave his life to the company and old quit when he couldn't physically do it anymore, instead of maybe quitting 6 months ago and spending more quality time with me before he died.
But, I'm a pessimist.
You should probably ask the daughter (Lisa Ann Brennan Jobs) whose paternity he tried to deny whether or not she would have liked more time with him. The guy came by his issues honestly but it seems he was pretty much of a disaster in his personal life.
Anonymous
10/07/2011 17:41
Subject: Steve Jobs -- Can a Genius Raise Kids?
Anonymous wrote:Every time a conversation regarding SAHM vs. WOHM, the behavior we model for our children, etc comes up, there seems to be an unspoken but agreed upon assumption that the big decisions we make as parents will impact who our children will be as adults. In some respects that is a give: of course who we our as parents will influence our children's lives. But we never discuss the crucial component of FREE WILL. The biggest determinant of our children's future is our children themselves. They will be the ones to decide whether they want to go to college, grad school, what kind of career to pursue, whether to SAH, etc...And most of those decisions will be made based on their fundamental personalities--something we don't have any control over.
I guess my point is that a Steve or Stephanie Jobs is not made--they're born--and unless you're a parent guilty of abuse/neglect, there's not much you can do to prevent any child from becoming who their personality destines them to be.
Absolutely! PP, you took words from my mouth.