In Ward 5? It wouldn't. It's too late.

It's either too late or too early. If DCPS developed a core of education-minded people committed to public schools at the elementary level, it has a prayer of getting them to stay through middle school. But this isn't happening, and a new middle school alone won't change that. It'll take vastly improved offerings at the PK and elem level first.

Anonymous wrote:So why would a new middle school change this?

In Ward 5? It wouldn't. It's too late. Just like it's too late in Wards 1 & 4. Ward 2 is struggling to make its middle school work. Ward 6 better figure it out fast or the writing is on the wall.

So why would a new middle school change this?

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain to me why the Ward 5 middle schools didn't work 5 years ago before they blew up the model? We are not that far removed in Ward 5 from having middle schools--why didn't they work then? Why were they under enrolled? Lack of resources? Lack of beautiful facility? Before we march down the path of a stand alone middle school AGAIN, walk me through why Ward 5 middle schools were so bad at attracting kids before.

They had a long history of being low-performing. Once several successful charters opened up in Ward 5 (DC Prep comes to mind) they siphoned off the best students. Then the middle schools accelerated their under-enrollment and poor performance. The competition kept growing and they failed to improve. Essentially, they were abandoned by the Ward 5 parents of middle schoolers who got sick of them and chose other options. This is the same story of many middle schools in DCPS (it happened in Ward 4 too). Two former Ward 4 middle schools are now EL Haynes and Cap City (still being built out).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ward Five is setting themselves up for failure if their only goal is getting a stand alone middle school.

As a Ward Six parent, I would actually prefer to have two of our three middle schools closed. I want Eliot Hine filled to capacity - generating economies of scale and concentrating a critical mass of strong students.

Also, Ward Six middle school seats were significantly limited, the spots at Eliot Hine would increase in value and be more coveted (like happened at Stuart Hobson) thus raising their value and attracting a stronger cohort.

This is only if Hine is perceived as achieving, safe, and enriching. Having limited spots for a sub-par school is silly.

Elion Hine is already considered to be achieving, safer, and more enriching. Most of its enrollment is out of bounds, and families from Wards Five, Seven and Eight send their kids there because it is better than the options they have in their neighborhoods. Yes, in an absolute sense, Eliot Hine it isn't really that good. But in a relative sense it is one of the top DCPS middle schools. Since Ward Six has stronger elementary schools than its neighbors to the north and east, and the wave of Ward Six gentrification has yet to hit middle school, Eliot Hine can be even more desirable and feed on itself over time. That's similar to what happened at Stuart Hobson - with Watkins as a dedicated feeder and a marginally better program than its neighbors, SH developed a positive feedback loop which combined with its limited enrollment to make it a sought after school. And like Eliot Hine, Stuart Hobson isn't really all that good in an absolute sense, but compared to what else it out there it looks pretty darn good to most people who have no options.

If Eliot Hine was a little better than its competition, and its seats were limited, it might become a top school in a few years. If Stuart Hobson and Jefferson were closed, and Eliot Hine got receiving school funds (or whatever they are called), plus Eliot Hine got a hefty chunk of the significant modernization funds budgeted for Stuart Hobson in '12 and Jefferson in '13, then you could make Eliot Hine look pretty darn attractive to a lot of people.

Plus, could you imagine the mental pretzel it would put Ward Six haters into if Jefferson and Stuart Hobson were closed because Ward Six advocated for it? How could the haters argue against increasing Eliot Hine's budget if Ward Six dramatically lowered its combined three school middle school budget. How could the Ward Six haters complain that Eliot Hine is an in-bounds school? Certainly takes the teeth out of Ward Five assertions that Ward Six parents drink bubbly wine while DCPS shines their shoes . . .

WTH? Seriously, who/what is a Ward Six hater? This has to be the stupidest thing I've read on DCUM all week (and that's saying something).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-schools-insider/post/wells-to-ward-5-dont-demagogue-by-demographics/2011/09/08/gIQAgbO1CK_blog.html

I stand corrected. Maria Jones has no love for Ward 6. I'm not sure that makes her a "hater" per se, she seems (justifiably?) frustrated that Ward 5 does not have a middle school. However, she's clearly not warm & fuzzy, that's for sure. She is one single (albeit vociferous) parent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ward Five is setting themselves up for failure if their only goal is getting a stand alone middle school.

As a Ward Six parent, I would actually prefer to have two of our three middle schools closed. I want Eliot Hine filled to capacity - generating economies of scale and concentrating a critical mass of strong students.

Also, Ward Six middle school seats were significantly limited, the spots at Eliot Hine would increase in value and be more coveted (like happened at Stuart Hobson) thus raising their value and attracting a stronger cohort.

This is only if Hine is perceived as achieving, safe, and enriching. Having limited spots for a sub-par school is silly.

Elion Hine is already considered to be achieving, safer, and more enriching. Most of its enrollment is out of bounds, and families from Wards Five, Seven and Eight send their kids there because it is better than the options they have in their neighborhoods. Yes, in an absolute sense, Eliot Hine it isn't really that good. But in a relative sense it is one of the top DCPS middle schools. Since Ward Six has stronger elementary schools than its neighbors to the north and east, and the wave of Ward Six gentrification has yet to hit middle school, Eliot Hine can be even more desirable and feed on itself over time. That's similar to what happened at Stuart Hobson - with Watkins as a dedicated feeder and a marginally better program than its neighbors, SH developed a positive feedback loop which combined with its limited enrollment to make it a sought after school. And like Eliot Hine, Stuart Hobson isn't really all that good in an absolute sense, but compared to what else it out there it looks pretty darn good to most people who have no options.

If Eliot Hine was a little better than its competition, and its seats were limited, it might become a top school in a few years. If Stuart Hobson and Jefferson were closed, and Eliot Hine got receiving school funds (or whatever they are called), plus Eliot Hine got a hefty chunk of the significant modernization funds budgeted for Stuart Hobson in '12 and Jefferson in '13, then you could make Eliot Hine look pretty darn attractive to a lot of people.

Plus, could you imagine the mental pretzel it would put Ward Six haters into if Jefferson and Stuart Hobson were closed because Ward Six advocated for it? How could the haters argue against increasing Eliot Hine's budget if Ward Six dramatically lowered its combined three school middle school budget. How could the Ward Six haters complain that Eliot Hine is an in-bounds school? Certainly takes the teeth out of Ward Five assertions that Ward Six parents drink bubbly wine while DCPS shines their shoes . . .

WTH? Seriously, who/what is a Ward Six hater? This has to be the stupidest thing I've read on DCUM all week (and that's saying something).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-schools-insider/post/wells-to-ward-5-dont-demagogue-by-demographics/2011/09/08/gIQAgbO1CK_blog.html

Can someone explain to me why the Ward 5 middle schools didn't work 5 years ago before they blew up the model? We are not that far removed in Ward 5 from having middle schools--why didn't they work then? Why were they under enrolled? Lack of resources? Lack of beautiful facility? Before we march down the path of a stand alone middle school AGAIN, walk me through why Ward 5 middle schools were so bad at attracting kids before.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ward Five is setting themselves up for failure if their only goal is getting a stand alone middle school.

As a Ward Six parent, I would actually prefer to have two of our three middle schools closed. I want Eliot Hine filled to capacity - generating economies of scale and concentrating a critical mass of strong students.

Also, Ward Six middle school seats were significantly limited, the spots at Eliot Hine would increase in value and be more coveted (like happened at Stuart Hobson) thus raising their value and attracting a stronger cohort.

This is only if Hine is perceived as achieving, safe, and enriching. Having limited spots for a sub-par school is silly.

Elion Hine is already considered to be achieving, safer, and more enriching. Most of its enrollment is out of bounds, and families from Wards Five, Seven and Eight send their kids there because it is better than the options they have in their neighborhoods. Yes, in an absolute sense, Eliot Hine it isn't really that good. But in a relative sense it is one of the top DCPS middle schools. Since Ward Six has stronger elementary schools than its neighbors to the north and east, and the wave of Ward Six gentrification has yet to hit middle school, Eliot Hine can be even more desirable and feed on itself over time. That's similar to what happened at Stuart Hobson - with Watkins as a dedicated feeder and a marginally better program than its neighbors, SH developed a positive feedback loop which combined with its limited enrollment to make it a sought after school. And like Eliot Hine, Stuart Hobson isn't really all that good in an absolute sense, but compared to what else it out there it looks pretty darn good to most people who have no options.

If Eliot Hine was a little better than its competition, and its seats were limited, it might become a top school in a few years. If Stuart Hobson and Jefferson were closed, and Eliot Hine got receiving school funds (or whatever they are called), plus Eliot Hine got a hefty chunk of the significant modernization funds budgeted for Stuart Hobson in '12 and Jefferson in '13, then you could make Eliot Hine look pretty darn attractive to a lot of people.

Plus, could you imagine the mental pretzel it would put Ward Six haters into if Jefferson and Stuart Hobson were closed because Ward Six advocated for it? How could the haters argue against increasing Eliot Hine's budget if Ward Six dramatically lowered its combined three school middle school budget. How could the Ward Six haters complain that Eliot Hine is an in-bounds school? Certainly takes the teeth out of Ward Five assertions that Ward Six parents drink bubbly wine while DCPS shines their shoes . . .

WTH? Seriously, who/what is a Ward Six hater? This has to be the stupidest thing I've read on DCUM all week (and that's saying something).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes look at Maret- $30,000 plus a year. Last I saw the DCPS budget is not expanding. Every non-classroom teacher (art, library, gym, special ed are more expensive for a smaller school on a per-capita basis.)

Doesn't address the point. Most of the special expenses (science labs, media centers, playing fields) are one-time costs. After that, staff appropriately. There's a wealth of data to support SMALLER schools being BETTER schools. The only reason it isn't true in DCPS, is that DCPS is a dogpile. Middle schools shouldn't have to have 1,000 students to succeed, and if they do - that is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Staff appropriately is an expensive thing! As is incurring those one time costs. Plus what PP said about privates not having to deal with low-income students and all the challenges they face in their daily lives. I attended the Ward 5 mtg last week at Luke Moore Academy, a "second chance" high school. On the wall there were paragraphs by students who had to explain why they were late. One was late because her bus from Anacostia was 20 min late, then she had to take Orange/Blue to Metro Center, then Red to Brookland. Another was late because she had to take care of her grandmother who has alhzheimer's -- feed her, dress her etc. Said she hoped that she didn't get kicked out for being late but if she did, that was ok because she had to take care of her grandmother. Needless to say, privates don't have to deal with these kinds of challenges. So that is why it is different. Get it now?

The masterminds at DCPS believe that good teachers can overcome all of this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes look at Maret- $30,000 plus a year. Last I saw the DCPS budget is not expanding. Every non-classroom teacher (art, library, gym, special ed are more expensive for a smaller school on a per-capita basis.)

Doesn't address the point. Most of the special expenses (science labs, media centers, playing fields) are one-time costs. After that, staff appropriately. There's a wealth of data to support SMALLER schools being BETTER schools. The only reason it isn't true in DCPS, is that DCPS is a dogpile. Middle schools shouldn't have to have 1,000 students to succeed, and if they do - that is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Staff appropriately is an expensive thing! As is incurring those one time costs. Plus what PP said about privates not having to deal with low-income students and all the challenges they face in their daily lives. I attended the Ward 5 mtg last week at Luke Moore Academy, a "second chance" high school. On the wall there were paragraphs by students who had to explain why they were late. One was late because her bus from Anacostia was 20 min late, then she had to take Orange/Blue to Metro Center, then Red to Brookland. Another was late because she had to take care of her grandmother who has alhzheimer's -- feed her, dress her etc. Said she hoped that she didn't get kicked out for being late but if she did, that was ok because she had to take care of her grandmother. Needless to say, privates don't have to deal with these kinds of challenges. So that is why it is different. Get it now?

Update from DCPS:

Dear Participants,
We want to thank you for attending the Ward 5 Great Schools Initiative Meeting on Thursday, September 29th. The PowerPoint and the notes collected from each of the feedback worksheets will be posted to the DCPS website by Wednesday afternoon.

We will hold our next Ward 5 Community Meeting on Wednesday, November 16, 2011, 6-8pm, (location TBD), where we will present a DCPS proposed middle grade configuration for Ward 5 schools based upon the feedback that we receive from Ward 5 parents and staff.

As promised during Thursday’s meeting, DCPS will also host a meeting in the month of October – specifically for parents of Ward 5 students in education campuses– to discuss potential short-term solutions.

Moreover, if you are interested in helping us reach out to parents and conduct further outreach for our upcoming meetings, or getting more involved generally, please contact me via email.

Again, thank you for your participation and we look forward to working with you over the coming weeks and months.

Sincerely,
Marie Woodward-Graves

What data says that small schools are better? Gates used to think so years ago when he put a ton of money into creating the "small-school" movement. It was not a success and now the pendulum is swinging back. I'd be interested in reading your "small school is better" research b/c I have not found that to be the case.

Anonymous wrote:Doesn't address the point. Most of the special expenses (science labs, media centers, playing fields) are one-time costs. After that, staff appropriately. There's a wealth of data to support SMALLER schools being BETTER schools. The only reason it isn't true in DCPS, is that DCPS is a dogpile. Middle schools shouldn't have to have 1,000 students to succeed, and if they do - that is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Privates have money, no unmanageable kids and a small bell curve.

Anonymous wrote:Yes look at Maret- $30,000 plus a year. Last I saw the DCPS budget is not expanding. Every non-classroom teacher (art, library, gym, special ed are more expensive for a smaller school on a per-capita basis.)

Doesn't address the point. Most of the special expenses (science labs, media centers, playing fields) are one-time costs. After that, staff appropriately. There's a wealth of data to support SMALLER schools being BETTER schools. The only reason it isn't true in DCPS, is that DCPS is a dogpile. Middle schools shouldn't have to have 1,000 students to succeed, and if they do - that is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ward Five is setting themselves up for failure if their only goal is getting a stand alone middle school.

As a Ward Six parent, I would actually prefer to have two of our three middle schools closed. I want Eliot Hine filled to capacity - generating economies of scale and concentrating a critical mass of strong students.

Also, Ward Six middle school seats were significantly limited, the spots at Eliot Hine would increase in value and be more coveted (like happened at Stuart Hobson) thus raising their value and attracting a stronger cohort.

This is only if Hine is perceived as achieving, safe, and enriching. Having limited spots for a sub-par school is silly.

Elion Hine is already considered to be achieving, safer, and more enriching. Most of its enrollment is out of bounds, and families from Wards Five, Seven and Eight send their kids there because it is better than the options they have in their neighborhoods. Yes, in an absolute sense, Eliot Hine it isn't really that good. But in a relative sense it is one of the top DCPS middle schools. Since Ward Six has stronger elementary schools than its neighbors to the north and east, and the wave of Ward Six gentrification has yet to hit middle school, Eliot Hine can be even more desirable and feed on itself over time. That's similar to what happened at Stuart Hobson - with Watkins as a dedicated feeder and a marginally better program than its neighbors, SH developed a positive feedback loop which combined with its limited enrollment to make it a sought after school. And like Eliot Hine, Stuart Hobson isn't really all that good in an absolute sense, but compared to what else it out there it looks pretty darn good to most people who have no options.

If Eliot Hine was a little better than its competition, and its seats were limited, it might become a top school in a few years. If Stuart Hobson and Jefferson were closed, and Eliot Hine got receiving school funds (or whatever they are called), plus Eliot Hine got a hefty chunk of the significant modernization funds budgeted for Stuart Hobson in '12 and Jefferson in '13, then you could make Eliot Hine look pretty darn attractive to a lot of people.

Plus, could you imagine the mental pretzel it would put Ward Six haters into if Jefferson and Stuart Hobson were closed because Ward Six advocated for it? How could the haters argue against increasing Eliot Hine's budget if Ward Six dramatically lowered its combined three school middle school budget. How could the Ward Six haters complain that Eliot Hine is an in-bounds school? Certainly takes the teeth out of Ward Five assertions that Ward Six parents drink bubbly wine while DCPS shines their shoes . . .