From my experience of two Center kids (oldest now in 7th grade, youngest in 4th) it is the "wrong" kid who often needs the Center the most. Think about Albert Einstein, for example. In a "normal" classroom, he failed. Teachers thought him stupid. Now my kids are extraordinarily bright, but they are not Einstein. In a "normal" classroom they do not excel because they are so bright. My youngest, for example, has refused to do worksheets because they were a waste of time, she knew the answers already, and she doesn't like to write everything she knows. But she is a prolific reader, solved algebra in her head in 3rd grade, and scores on standardized tests at the high school level. If you were to observe her in the classroom, you would not know this because she is very quiet and introverted. If you saw her report card you would think she was just average -- not too many Os -- because she is not a great student. Many of the truly gifted kids are not great students, so in order for them to blossom they need to be with teachers who understand that and with peers with whom they are similar.

So from my experience it should not be a numbers game -- getting certain test scores or grades -- but should be about kids who really NEED to be in a gifted program.

i'm holding my tongue.

Anonymous wrote:Respectfully disagree. Psychologist with 20+ years of experience with gifted in Fairfax County told me that the committee does not even read the stuff submitted by the parents, and that it is a complete numbers game of test scores, GBRS, and grades. The parent info just makes the parents feel like they are participating somehow. I was quite amazed, as I spent hours putting together a beautiful package of Parent Questionnaire, work samples, and letters of recommendation.

In my post, I never once said or even implied the selection committee actually reviews the material submitted by the parents. Other things equal, NNAT, Cogat, GBRS and grades, who do you think they will accept into AAP? I just contended that those who took the time to fill out the optional materiel speaks volumes. The one whose parents did fill out the optional material or the one who did not. To me, the idea that the material is ignored is irrelevant.

To 18:41 - Obviously I dont know the reason why your DS did not make it. I played with the numbers you provided, weighting the NNAT, COGAT, GBRS, and grades equally. There is certainly a lot of guesswork put into it but I have your DS at around 1456 out of circa 12,500 students. That would be top 11.6%. Considering at our school, it sounds like they accepted about 24% of the 2nd grade for GT your DS would be well within that parameter if Fairfax County is accepting kids at that rate systematically throughout. If you want to know my methodology let me know. Im sure that part of it could be debated.
I had my speech ready if my DD did not get in. Where I went to public elementary 30 years ago, there was no GT or AAP program. In the end the smart kids went on to AP courses and the others went to the regular courses. There is nothing holding your son back from taking AP classes as well a few years down the road. Im glad my DC got in yes but the process is suspect and its not worth getting all worked up over. Think of it this way 10 years from now. Imagine a student scoring a 1000 on the sat with average grades applying to Harvard and they submit a wisc score of 138. Im sure they would get a pretty good laugh at that.

Thank you PP! Well said.

Parent of a "wrong kid" here - DD was like a mouse in school, had trouble spelling and writing was slow. Teacher clearly wasn't impressed with her when we met for the November conference. At home however, DD writes amazing stories and poems, invents things and runs circles around us in strategy games. She loves to do independent research, and on her topics of interest she speaks like a little adult Her test scores were exceptional, and she's been accepted to the Center. Since November we stepped up spelling practice and public speaking opportunities, and DD recently won a writing award. Teacher agrees DD has matured and is ready for AAP.

A volunteer in the classroom like OP might not "get" any of this. Some kids don't follow a straight path. The committee, however, has seen lots of profiles and I would think has a good idea about which children need the services of the Center.

And certainly don't trust these "classroom volunteer" parents who think they are qualified to pass judgment on the elibigility of our kids. Unbelievable.

Another mom with a "wrong" kid - not always the best behavior in school, particularly when he is bored. Our DS can be total goof. He is also extremely bright; 99.7% on the WISCIV (141). We moved him from private at the suggestion of his 2nd grade teacher, who said the private could not adequately challenge him. Our DS was placed within the most challenging group in each AAP class (b/c even within AAP they differentiate), and he loves it. But if no one pushed him he would cruise by in school. If a parent thinks their child should be in AAP, I believe they need to ensure that they do everything to make that happen. Take the WISC as a backup (unless if like us you are coming from private and need to take the WISC anyway), submit work samples, fill out the parent form, etc. Don't trust someone else to ensure your kid is properly placed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am extremely wary of the process. There are some kids that absolutely floor me with the fact that they were accepted. Absolutely. Floor. Me. I would think this whether or not DD was accepted. She was not, but has high everything, so to speak. I'm just not sure I am so interested in the program at this point, especially if they are choosing the wrong kids as it seems. I am sure I am not the only one.

Those "wrong kids" won't get a break when they have to do the work next year.

The question is whether or not your child's needs are going to be met with what is being taught in regular class OR in AAP. The committee is made up of human beings who make mistakes. Feel sorry for the kid that got in that shouldn't really be there....they are going to have a tough time next year. But that's not your problem. In the end....what's important is what curriculum is best for your kid. If they got it wrong in regards to your kid, PUSH hard to get your child where she needs to be....whether aap, regular classes, private school, etc. Good Luck!

Sad Mom poster above with one of the "wrong kids." My "wrong kid" is doing great at the center -- as is one of her friends from the same base school that was another "shocker" for the catty parents. Sometimes these kids are capable of far more than people know. I met with the principal at our AAP center last year and she told me that there are a few kids who really can't hack it but most of the kids that get admitted do well, so it sounds like they make a few mistakes but most of their selections work out.

Anonymous wrote:I am extremely wary of the process. There are some kids that absolutely floor me with the fact that they were accepted. Absolutely. Floor. Me. I would think this whether or not DD was accepted. She was not, but has high everything, so to speak. I'm just not sure I am so interested in the program at this point, especially if they are choosing the wrong kids as it seems. I am sure I am not the only one.

Those "wrong kids" won't get a break when they have to do the work next year.

The question is whether or not your child's needs are going to be met with what is being taught in regular class OR in AAP. The committee is made up of human beings who make mistakes. Feel sorry for the kid that got in that shouldn't really be there....they are going to have a tough time next year. But that's not your problem. In the end....what's important is what curriculum is best for your kid. If they got it wrong in regards to your kid, PUSH hard to get your child where she needs to be....whether aap, regular classes, private school, etc. Good Luck!

Anonymous wrote:Im not on any committee to choose who gets in and who doesnt but we did just have our DD get selected for AAP. My guess is what seems mostly overlooked on this board is whether or not the parents of kids who were automatically in the pool submitted the extra work samples and filled out the questionaire. The selection committee probably puts a lot of weight on this with the mindset that the parents are committed are cared enough about it to take the time to put the package together. Yes its optional but those who dont are directly competing with those who did and it does say a lot. So if your child gets good grades and did well on the tests but did not get in, you should not necessarily point the finger at the school or the process but at yourselves.

This is true. We did not submit extra work samples (DD's teacher said that she had plenty to work with and mentioned a speech DD wrote that I was floored by....). However, I was asked to submit a parent questionnaire. It was important that they hear from ME apparently. Since what I said was backed up by the test scores, grades, GBRS and report cards.....dd was accepted.

Anonymous wrote:OP, your post made me sad. That is undoubtedly what other parents said about my child last year. You know what? She is a completely different child at the AAP center. Her test scores tell us she is bright, people who meet us constantly tell us she is bright, yet the school didn't see it. She got good grades (mostly O's) but they had her in all middle groups. No one pushed her, so she did exactly what they expected but no more. Now she's being pushed and she is blossoming. You don't really know what's under the surface of those average-seeming children. Your volunteering in class (and undoubtedly sizing other children up against your own) doesn't make you an expert on other children's intelligence.

Agree 100%. Same deal with my ds. Did not get placed in 2nd grade, even with test scores well over the 130 criteria. Teacher last year did not push him at all, despite my very best efforts to make her understand he would coast if not challenged. A low GBRS kept him out (9). This year, with an awesome teacher who really has recognized his abilities, we parent referred, without paying for further testing. Got in first round. We have decided for next year to keep him at his current school for local level IV.

Last year, when he was not being challenged, and was BORED in school, he would constantly be acting silly when his classwork took him no time to complete. I am quite certain there would be days when a volunteer in class would not be overly impressed with his "giftedness" if it were measured by simple observation.

Incidentally, this year (in a regular class group with an AAP classroom teacher who challenges him), we have not had a single behavior issue.

I am extremely wary of the process. There are some kids that absolutely floor me with the fact that they were accepted. Absolutely. Floor. Me. I would think this whether or not DD was accepted. She was not, but has high everything, so to speak. I'm just not sure I am so interested in the program at this point, especially if they are choosing the wrong kids as it seems. I am sure I am not the only one.

Anonymous wrote:Im not on any committee to choose who gets in and who doesnt but we did just have our DD get selected for AAP. My guess is what seems mostly overlooked on this board is whether or not the parents of kids who were automatically in the pool submitted the extra work samples and filled out the questionaire. The selection committee probably puts a lot of weight on this with the mindset that the parents are committed are cared enough about it to take the time to put the package together. Yes its optional but those who dont are directly competing with those who did and it does say a lot. So if your child gets good grades and did well on the tests but did not get in, you should not necessarily point the finger at the school or the process but at yourselves.

I don't know. I didn't submit anything extra for either of my Center kids. With the first one, I just didn't know any better. I wasn't informed, and our base school generally has very few Level IV-eligible students, so it wasn't a topic that was discussed among the parents. I just filled out the form that was sent home with the "you are eligible" letter. (And, FWIW, I had an unrelated meeting with my 2nd grader's teacher in February of that year, and she said, "Well, next year, when your son is at the Center . . ." So, she knew that he would be accepted. So that makes me think that a good school packet is all that is required.)

So with my 2nd child, I sort of didn't want to mess with a system that had worked for us, so I just asked the GT Coordinator if there was anything I should submit, and she said "just the form." So I didn't submit anything extra for her either.

Just my experience . . .

OP, your post made me sad. That is undoubtedly what other parents said about my child last year. You know what? She is a completely different child at the AAP center. Her test scores tell us she is bright, people who meet us constantly tell us she is bright, yet the school didn't see it. She got good grades (mostly O's) but they had her in all middle groups. No one pushed her, so she did exactly what they expected but no more. Now she's being pushed and she is blossoming. You don't really know what's under the surface of those average-seeming children. Your volunteering in class (and undoubtedly sizing other children up against your own) doesn't make you an expert on other children's intelligence.

Our AART explained to the parents at our school the process very clearly. She said the overriding factor when looking at the files were whether the child REALLY could not have their needs met at the base school. She said some kids with a 130 cogat are reading at a 4th grade level in the highest math grouping, and others are getting lots of G's and on level for reading. So even a good score might not get them into the AAP program.