why do we continue to have this argument? We get you don't "feel" rich - however, statistically, you're in a top income bracket. The IRS doesn't care if you live in NYC or west podunk. That is your choice, really. Once you have decided to live in a high cost area, you then make trade offs. Everyone understands that there are certain careers that only make sense in DC - so you must resign yourself to living in a high cost area. But, again, you make 5X what the average american does - that is a fact.

Here's the thing. The amount of money is not really relevant when people talk about this. Really, its not. Its the lifestyle that people are looking at. Look at this scenario, which I understand will not describe every single person on this board, but it will describe most who grew up in an average American family 30 to 40 years ago. Most of our parents worked hard at middle class jobs. Again, the exact amount doesn't matter. They probably had the same kind of job you and I have or even a job was less 'affluent'. Our parents graduated from college, paid their school loans, bought homes and cars, saved for college (often for more children) and for retirement. They got the new microwave at some point in the late 70s or 80s and also that new answering machine thingy and maybe even the cordless phone. When you were a teen you may have begged for that new call waiting feature. Your family may have had an Atari on your console TV. They took us on modest but honest to goodness vacations. They had hobbies and interests that they persued. They retired at 60 or 65 and are living comfortably now.

Now look at the same Average family today and here in the DC area will need to make waay more than our parents did, adjusted for inflation, to have that 'average American lifestyle". Saving adequate amounts of money for retirement and college has become the domain of the well heeled whereas before it was just part of an average American budget. Mostly our parents did not live paycheck to paycheck. They bought cars. They got the newest gadgets either sooner or later. They subscribed to cable eventually. But they didn't not need to fall into the top 5% of national income to do so.

The thing is, our standard of living in this country has crashed but nobody seems to want to say it. You must now be a top income producer to live in the same manner that the average income producer lived 40 years ago.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, sucks hard.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To say $250K a year anywhere is rich is ridiculous. It's upper middle class salary, not wealth, not rich. DH and I make this now living in DC. With private school tuition plus nanny plus mortgage and insurances plus healthcare there isn't much left.

You are rich because you earn in the top 3%.
This is an objective measure of your income.
What you choose to do with your money and what your expectations of how rich people should live are subjective and therefore irrelevant.

exactly. I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand. Just because you "don't feel rich" or have an older car does not mean anything. By all current objective measures you are within the top 3% of earners in the country. man, the obtuseness here is so tiresome.

I'm the PP that makes $250K together with DH. First of all, I said upper middle class, not middle class. Second, because I live in part of DC I do, it's very close to work so minimal commute but the house is expensive and the school is not good. Moreover, my kids aren't old enough for free public education yet anyway so I have to pay for private preschool. That's part-time so I need a nanny for the rest of the day. It's called childcare and it's a necessity so you other moms and dads out there - why judge? How is that a luxury? I guess I could have said daycare + a babysitter for childcare and you wouldn't have judged as harshly. But it all costs $$ whatever you call it. I pay my taxes, donate a good portion of our net income to charity and our church. $250K is not poor by any means but it's not rich either.

My household falls at about the $250K income level. I really don't care that some of you think we are rich; we are not. We are comfortable, yes. But, not rich.

We live in a modest house, have one used car and one that is a year old. We don't have a vacation home. We don't own much of anything that is flashy. We don't live beyond our means. We do give regularly to charity. We are considering not having a second child partly b/c of the the costs (of the one we have). We get mauled by taxes every year so, yes, I would have a big problem paying more just because some of you think we are "rich." We are not. Just because you "say so" doesn't make it a truth.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to break it to you, 21:12, but the posts you are referring to were sarcastic!

Which is what I though and why I posted

The implication that lower and honest to god, real middle income families actually think this way. The entire post is asinine

I'm going to bed. Your sarcasm implies a lot and isn't funny. And I still think that you believe that other people think this way. There is truth to every joke, making it funny. Yours FAILED.

Truth hurts, doesn't it? Really hard-working lower and middle class people aren't asking for hand-outs. As a group, they have way too much pride. All across America, there are factory workers and others who do their best for themselves and their families by showing up for work, day in and day out. I have only respect for them and try to give generously through organizations I support.

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to break it to you, 21:12, but the posts you are referring to were sarcastic!

Which is what I though and why I posted

The implication that lower and honest to god, real middle income families actually think this way. The entire post is asinine

I'm going to bed. Your sarcasm implies a lot and isn't funny. And I still think that you believe that other people think this way. There is truth to every joke, making it funny. Yours FAILED.

Sorry to break it to you, 21:12, but the posts you are referring to were sarcastic!

People with that much money should pay more taxes so the rest of us can have more.

So you honestly believe that families that make 250k per year should pay more so you can have more. You weren't being an ass and you truly believe this?

I assumed you were being an ass, because that is an ass thing to say. As is the -

So not fair. If they've got enough money to pay for college and save for retirement, I think they should pay higher taxes and help my six kids go to college and have health insurance. I never graduated from high school and only earn a tenth that much.

So you honest to goodness feel this way?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What about it makes you sick? People with that much money should pay more taxes so the rest of us can have more.

Everything. The implication that lower and honest to god, real middle income families actually think this way. The entire post is asinine.

Of course there are people that use the system, but the majority of Americas have the same damn concerns and dreams for their life and their children as you do.

Again, I shake my head at the jerks on DCUM. At least have the balls to come outright and proclaim your ignorance and prejudices.

Excuse me?! No one implied that "lower and honest to god, real middle income families actually think this way." It's not at all the way honest, hard-working people think. I know people who've worked in furniture factories for twenty years who now have a retirement of not much more than $200 per month, plus social security. People like that aren't asking for anything and wouldn't take it if you offered it!

*Americans, not Americas.

I'd hate to have a typo at a time like this.

Anonymous wrote:
What about it makes you sick? People with that much money should pay more taxes so the rest of us can have more.

Everything. The implication that lower and honest to god, real middle income families actually think this way. The entire post is asinine.

Of course there are people that use the system, but the majority of Americas have the same damn concerns and dreams for their life and their children as you do.

Again, I shake my head at the jerks on DCUM. At least have the balls to come outright and proclaim your ignorance and prejudices.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Down and Out"? Hardly. The hypothetical couple described in the article was in the red AFTER saving for college for their kids, saving for retirements, and living a "middle of the road" lifestyle. It's not like they are standing in soup kitchen lines on 250K.

So not fair. If they've got enough money to pay for college and save for retirement, I think they should pay higher taxes and help my six kids go to college and have health insurance. I never graduated from high school and only earn a tenth that much.

No one said that there was anything wrong with earning a high income, most of us on here do. But it is rich, higher taxes or not. Your post makes me sick.

What about it makes you sick? People with that much money should pay more taxes so the rest of us can have more.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Down and Out"? Hardly. The hypothetical couple described in the article was in the red AFTER saving for college for their kids, saving for retirements, and living a "middle of the road" lifestyle. It's not like they are standing in soup kitchen lines on 250K.

So not fair. If they've got enough money to pay for college and save for retirement, I think they should pay higher taxes and help my six kids go to college and have health insurance. I never graduated from high school and only earn a tenth that much.

No one said that there was anything wrong with earning a high income, most of us on here do. But it is rich, higher taxes or not. Your post makes me sick.

Anonymous wrote:"Down and Out"? Hardly. The hypothetical couple described in the article was in the red AFTER saving for college for their kids, saving for retirements, and living a "middle of the road" lifestyle. It's not like they are standing in soup kitchen lines on 250K.

So not fair. If they've got enough money to pay for college and save for retirement, I think they should pay higher taxes and help my six kids go to college and have health insurance. I never graduated from high school and only earn a tenth that much.