Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other thing that horrified me when I read about the SeaWorld stuff was just how badly those trainers were treated. They barely paid these people and had them get in the water with whales they knew were dangerous.

Former animal trainer here (I worked briefly with orcas and dolphins as well).

The industry is so low-paid because so many people want to do it. Each job opening gets hundreds, if not thousands, of applicants. So they can pay low wages, because someone will do it. Plus there’s a sense of passion and giving up your own money so the animals can have more.

As for them performing tricks - there have actually been studies done that give whales the option of performing for food vs eating food that was freely available in the pool. They choose to perform rather than eat the freely available fish. Most animals will do this, as they don’t see it as “performing” so much as mental stimulation, since all animals are built to work for their food.

This is, of course, assuming the trainers are solid and know what they’re doing, otherwise they become frustrated and will eat the freely available food (or lash out in frustration).

Ideally all the orcas would go to a sanctuary but that’s not realistic. When Keiko (the orca from Free Willy) was put in a sanctuary, their was funding from private donors but that quickly ran out, which is why he was pushed to be released WAY earlier than he should have been (if he should have been released at all). There’s just not enough money available for it. Right now the only way to get that funding is selling tickets.

I’m glad they will no longer be breeding orcas, but I do plan on taking my kids to Sea World to see them. Seeing orcas at Sea World actually inspired my entire career, which later got me into more animal welfare advocacy.

Many animals shouldn’t be in captivity, but since the breeding program is over, there’s not much harm in going to see them while you still can.

All of SeaWorld’s assets should be confiscated to pay for the best possible care for these poor animals. Shame on you for being an apologist for them in any way. It’s sickening. Taking your child there normalizes it.

Confiscating assets requires due process, and confiscating assets without evidence of lawful conduct is going to be challenged as unconstitutional. The end result is a lengthy legal battle which may or may not end in confiscation, diverting funds away from the animals.

The logistics and costs of a sanctuary would be astronomical. Currently there are 16 orcas in the United States across the three Sea World parks. The only current whale sanctuary in Nova Scotia can hold 2-4 orcas (currently those spots are reserved for the 2 orcas from France), and it's costing $15 million. Conservatively, a sanctuary to hold all 16 orcas would cost $60 million and take several years to build.

Furthermore, they likely couldn't all be kept in the same sanctuary. Highly social species like orcas cannot just be thrown in together; introductions can take years (I once helped introduce a new lion to a pride at a zoo, which was a 2 year process) and often go very poorly. Even when done properly, many social animals never get along. Historically, when orcas are transferred between parks, it results in aggression and injury. Trying to put all 16 orcas in one sanctuary is like taking 16 random people, throwing them into a house together, and hoping for the best. Dominance hierarchies would be violently re-established, many would never get along, and death or serious injury is likely. The entire process would also be *incredibly* stressful for all orcas involved. Even if kept in separate pens, they will still be stressed from other orcas in "their" territory.

Also, every animal is always evaluated individually before any transport to new facilities to make sure that is in the best interest of the animal. Many animals are extremely physically and psychologically stressed by the transport process and while adapting to new facilities. It takes YEARS of training, preparation, and rehabilitation. Animals with chronic health conditions or of advanced age likely would not survive. The current sanctuary in Nova Scotia has a massively different climate than of Orlando, San Diego, and San Antonio, where parks also have climate-controlled water, so they would need additional acclimatization to the water temperature (remember as a kid, you had to slowly acclimatize your new fish to the fish tank? Same thing, but on a MUCH larger scale).

You're also looking at 16 separate, individually managed transport operations, all including their own veterinary team, specialized equipment, aircraft, and facilities.

The process for moving Keiko to a sanctuary took 5 years of preparation and several million dollars. And even once he was moved, he constantly sought out human contact because that was what he had grown up with and wanted.

Oh! But I forgot, you want ALL of Sea World's assets confiscated. Great! Let's add THOUSANDS of dolphins, belugas, seal lions, seals, walruses, penguins, manatees, sharks, sea turtles, stingrays, sea otters, seabirds, fish and invertebrates, elephants, rhinos, giraffes, lions, tigers, cheetahs, gorillas, chimps, orangutans, gibbons, hippos, meerkats, hyenas, zebras, gazelles, antelope, ostriches, kangaroos, sloths, birds, reptiles, wolves, red pandas to the list of animals we we will now need to find "sanctuaries" for. Exactly where do you think all these animals will go?! Because remember, you want ALL their assets CONFISCATED.

Sorry, but the average person has ZERO idea what goes into this type of project. It's not as simple as finding some ocean, throwing all the orcas on a truck, and driving them there. I feel this way because I'm the only one here with actual hands-on experience on what it's like to manage this type of project.

Most real animal professionals agree that phased prohibition is better for the animals. It's less stress for the animals and requires less funding.

But, sure. Let's spend 10 years on a legal battle, another 15-20 years building sanctuaries for these thousands of animals, and move a bunch of elderly animals who likely won't survive the trip so you can feel good about yourself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other thing that horrified me when I read about the SeaWorld stuff was just how badly those trainers were treated. They barely paid these people and had them get in the water with whales they knew were dangerous.

Former animal trainer here (I worked briefly with orcas and dolphins as well).

The industry is so low-paid because so many people want to do it. Each job opening gets hundreds, if not thousands, of applicants. So they can pay low wages, because someone will do it. Plus there’s a sense of passion and giving up your own money so the animals can have more.

As for them performing tricks - there have actually been studies done that give whales the option of performing for food vs eating food that was freely available in the pool. They choose to perform rather than eat the freely available fish. Most animals will do this, as they don’t see it as “performing” so much as mental stimulation, since all animals are built to work for their food.

This is, of course, assuming the trainers are solid and know what they’re doing, otherwise they become frustrated and will eat the freely available food (or lash out in frustration).

Ideally all the orcas would go to a sanctuary but that’s not realistic. When Keiko (the orca from Free Willy) was put in a sanctuary, their was funding from private donors but that quickly ran out, which is why he was pushed to be released WAY earlier than he should have been (if he should have been released at all). There’s just not enough money available for it. Right now the only way to get that funding is selling tickets.

I’m glad they will no longer be breeding orcas, but I do plan on taking my kids to Sea World to see them. Seeing orcas at Sea World actually inspired my entire career, which later got me into more animal welfare advocacy.

Many animals shouldn’t be in captivity, but since the breeding program is over, there’s not much harm in going to see them while you still can.

All of SeaWorld’s assets should be confiscated to pay for the best possible care for these poor animals. Shame on you for being an apologist for them in any way. It’s sickening. Taking your child there normalizes it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Baltimore aquarium is fun for kids plus has some shows

The other science museum for kids down on the Baltimore harbor is great too. And federal hill parks, a boat ride, a meal, a ballgame.

Baltimore aquarium stopped having dolphins perform in shows about 10 years ago.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other thing that horrified me when I read about the SeaWorld stuff was just how badly those trainers were treated. They barely paid these people and had them get in the water with whales they knew were dangerous.

Former animal trainer here (I worked briefly with orcas and dolphins as well).

The industry is so low-paid because so many people want to do it. Each job opening gets hundreds, if not thousands, of applicants. So they can pay low wages, because someone will do it. Plus there’s a sense of passion and giving up your own money so the animals can have more.

As for them performing tricks - there have actually been studies done that give whales the option of performing for food vs eating food that was freely available in the pool. They choose to perform rather than eat the freely available fish. Most animals will do this, as they don’t see it as “performing” so much as mental stimulation, since all animals are built to work for their food.

This is, of course, assuming the trainers are solid and know what they’re doing, otherwise they become frustrated and will eat the freely available food (or lash out in frustration).

Ideally all the orcas would go to a sanctuary but that’s not realistic. When Keiko (the orca from Free Willy) was put in a sanctuary, their was funding from private donors but that quickly ran out, which is why he was pushed to be released WAY earlier than he should have been (if he should have been released at all). There’s just not enough money available for it. Right now the only way to get that funding is selling tickets.

I’m glad they will no longer be breeding orcas, but I do plan on taking my kids to Sea World to see them. Seeing orcas at Sea World actually inspired my entire career, which later got me into more animal welfare advocacy.

Many animals shouldn’t be in captivity, but since the breeding program is over, there’s not much harm in going to see them while you still can.

All of SeaWorld’s assets should be confiscated to pay for the best possible care for these poor animals. Shame on you for being an apologist for them in any way. It’s sickening. Taking your child there normalizes it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP. There is a sea world sub forum on disboards. You aren’t going to get any helpful responses here.

Oh disboards, the literal bottom of the internet. Some people think it's 4chan, but it's actually disboards where the people pretend they are decent.

You don't get out much, do you?

Anonymous wrote:OP. There is a sea world sub forum on disboards. You aren’t going to get any helpful responses here.

Anonymous wrote:Hope you’re a troll. If not go educate yourself on the horrific nature of Orca kidnapping and captivity and why Sea World can’t do their abominable shows anymore. When you patronize Sea World you support animal cruelty.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other thing that horrified me when I read about the SeaWorld stuff was just how badly those trainers were treated. They barely paid these people and had them get in the water with whales they knew were dangerous.

Former animal trainer here (I worked briefly with orcas and dolphins as well).

The industry is so low-paid because so many people want to do it. Each job opening gets hundreds, if not thousands, of applicants. So they can pay low wages, because someone will do it. Plus there’s a sense of passion and giving up your own money so the animals can have more.

As for them performing tricks - there have actually been studies done that give whales the option of performing for food vs eating food that was freely available in the pool. They choose to perform rather than eat the freely available fish. Most animals will do this, as they don’t see it as “performing” so much as mental stimulation, since all animals are built to work for their food.

This is, of course, assuming the trainers are solid and know what they’re doing, otherwise they become frustrated and will eat the freely available food (or lash out in frustration).

Ideally all the orcas would go to a sanctuary but that’s not realistic. When Keiko (the orca from Free Willy) was put in a sanctuary, their was funding from private donors but that quickly ran out, which is why he was pushed to be released WAY earlier than he should have been (if he should have been released at all). There’s just not enough money available for it. Right now the only way to get that funding is selling tickets.

I’m glad they will no longer be breeding orcas, but I do plan on taking my kids to Sea World to see them. Seeing orcas at Sea World actually inspired my entire career, which later got me into more animal welfare advocacy.

Many animals shouldn’t be in captivity, but since the breeding program is over, there’s not much harm in going to see them while you still can.

Anonymous wrote:The other thing that horrified me when I read about the SeaWorld stuff was just how badly those trainers were treated. They barely paid these people and had them get in the water with whales they knew were dangerous.