Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But what if a kid has more rare interests .. classics/acheology/history/russian literature. They way its all pulled together is less likely to look packaged just bc its more rarely seen (then lets say econ/business kids)

Hard to pull off without seeming like a fake out who is going to change his major to Business or CS a month into the school year.

Students do it every year.

A lot of the Ivy+ admits are in things like anthropology that quickly pivot to a more pre-professional major with an anthropology minor or double major.
The flavor of the month depends on the school. An experienced IEC can really help you identify the soft spots.

Agree with the poster above about interviews - I wish more schools did them. I also do some and it is often fairly easy to tease out sincerity and depth of interest. I know these are only 17-18 year old kids, but one can often easily tell.

I have had several kids who seemed so put together but clearly were doing things because they were told to do so. One easy way to find out is to ask if they will continue the activity in college (if it is possible - I know that often it isn't) - if they start hemming and hawing about it, they probably don't care.

I had another kid who I was pretty sure was overpackaged - very wealthy, fancy school, story seemed too good to be true. But I asked about their somewhat esoteric interest and I could see their eyes light up and they went into a lot of depth on the topic that demonstrated to me that they truly did care. So either their coaching was good enough to even account for that, or they truly loved this activity. Given that the topic was something that 95% of kids would find incredibly boring and their speech made it clear that they had truly invested a lot of time in it, I gave them the benefit of the doubt.

Anonymous wrote:I think this is a real thing. When a student sounds robotic and everything ties together in a perfect little bow, they lack personality and, most important, grit.

Like another person said, this is about sincerity and genuine interest. For the most part, you can't fake that. Don't diss on kids who really do have a directing passion in their lives, PP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People, so many of you are getting this wrong.

Here’s an example:

Candidate A: 4.0 UW, 1520 SAT. High rigor in all subjects. Applying for economics. ECs are president of school finance club, VP Deca club, interned in something business related, one varsity sport, started a business, writes essay about things they learned from their business, published a random research thing on an economic issue, statements from school counselor and teachers are in line with this narrative. This is a well-packaged candidate. ECs support the major and there is a clear path for this candidate in their major. But this is arguably very boring profile

Candidate B. 4.0 uw. 1520 SAT. High rigor in all subjects. Applying for economics. President of school finance club, appeared in several productions in the school play, wrote for the literary journal, worked as a welder in summer, had random hobby x that has nothing to do with economics, writes something meaningful about random hobby. ECs vaguely support the major, not as packaged as Candidate A. Feels more like a real person with interests rather than a package to maximize admission to a specific major.

Question is whether candidate B does better than Candidate A.

There are a lot of variations of this

Welding adds blue collar street cred. Lol. Gets picked because AO's dad is a welder.

Absolutely doesn’t get picked because if AO’s dad is a welder, they would realize you have to be at least 18 to to be a welder because it is classified as a dangerous job. If you are under 18, you are never getting a work permit to be one, no company would hire you because of the liability.

So many of these scenarios are so unrealistic. Not buying some was in several productions of the school play, writes literary journal and is a welder. No one is in band and choir and glee club AND has time for cross country and basketball.

Unless you are at a small school basketball is a hard sport to play all 4 years to not only make the team as s freshman but then never get cut since the roster is so small. Unless a student is winning national martial arts events, no AO is going to be impressed if a student says they are a black belt since so many places hand out black belts. Many kids doing martial arts that many years are quirky and a AO would much rather pick the 4 year basketball player because it is a team sport.

I look at over packaged when students are doing a common instrument like violin /piano, play tennis /golf, have high level of math/math competitions, science competitions, volunteer at hospital or lab, summer STEM internships, President of some school clubs, student government.

Which just goes to show that you know nothing about how it works. I know so many STEM/classical music kids who are at Ivies and Johns Hopkins right now. And not all of them are Asian, speaking as an Asian person myself The kids I know did very well in math/science/music competitions, played their instrument to a high level, tutored many children for a legitimate organization and had an important, paid, administrative role at the end, and/or were selected for prestigious summer research internships. Not all of those things at once, but let's say 3 of those per kid. They did not play sports at a high level nor were they President of school clubs or part of student government.

It's clear you're not a scientist yourself and that you don't know how college admission officers look at research or science competitions.

I think this is a real thing. When a student sounds robotic and everything ties together in a perfect little bow, they lack personality and, most important, grit.

My 10th grader just got an internship at a well-known institution, that is quite selective to get into. She probably got it because she has a niche interest in one of the research topics they offered, and she explained what she had previously done for her interest in years past. (Also her academic profile is excellent, but I assume that was the floor to be even considered a viable candidate.)

You cannot fake that level of interest in a topic most people wouldn't even think about. Even though Ivies are always a lottery, I am sure college admissions officers will find her interests sincere. She might very well end up at a tier 2 college, and that's fine. But if she sticks to her trajectory, she will be one of those students who has a lottery ticket to the top tier. As her parent, I don't care much either way, as long as she's happy where she is.

These are my observations after having seen my older kids and all of their friends go through the process with various levels of extra-curriculars and grades.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People, so many of you are getting this wrong.

Here’s an example:

Candidate A: 4.0 UW, 1520 SAT. High rigor in all subjects. Applying for economics. ECs are president of school finance club, VP Deca club, interned in something business related, one varsity sport, started a business, writes essay about things they learned from their business, published a random research thing on an economic issue, statements from school counselor and teachers are in line with this narrative. This is a well-packaged candidate. ECs support the major and there is a clear path for this candidate in their major. But this is arguably very boring profile

Candidate B. 4.0 uw. 1520 SAT. High rigor in all subjects. Applying for economics. President of school finance club, appeared in several productions in the school play, wrote for the literary journal, worked as a welder in summer, had random hobby x that has nothing to do with economics, writes something meaningful about random hobby. ECs vaguely support the major, not as packaged as Candidate A. Feels more like a real person with interests rather than a package to maximize admission to a specific major.

Question is whether candidate B does better than Candidate A.

There are a lot of variations of this

Welding adds blue collar street cred. Lol. Gets picked because AO's dad is a welder.

Absolutely doesn’t get picked because if AO’s dad is a welder, they would realize you have to be at least 18 to to be a welder because it is classified as a dangerous job. If you are under 18, you are never getting a work permit to be one, no company would hire you because of the liability.

So many of these scenarios are so unrealistic. Not buying some was in several productions of the school play, writes literary journal and is a welder. No one is in band and choir and glee club AND has time for cross country and basketball.

Unless you are at a small school basketball is a hard sport to play all 4 years to not only make the team as s freshman but then never get cut since the roster is so small. Unless a student is winning national martial arts events, no AO is going to be impressed if a student says they are a black belt since so many places hand out black belts. Many kids doing martial arts that many years are quirky and a AO would much rather pick the 4 year basketball player because it is a team sport.

I look at over packaged when students are doing a common instrument like violin /piano, play tennis /golf, have high level of math/math competitions, science competitions, volunteer at hospital or lab, summer STEM internships, President of some school clubs, student government.

Curious if these profiles are (1) Authentic or (2) Packaged?

https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/1qu8izh/loser_mushroom_lover_bags_the_artsy_ivy/

https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/1joipen/small_town_barrel_racer_gets_into_3_ivies/

https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/1hlnslr/rural_maine_student_w_research_goes_for_lac_and/

I'm letting my kid be who they are. Encouraging depth of involvement but not forcing things. Freshman year they got involved in an activity that had a great path to leadership and would have created a great college narrative. I encouraged it. They hated it - didn't like the other kids involved and didn't like the activity. I let it go.

How about this - schools stop obsessing about yield and game theory and make the process more normal and predictable. And they make it very clear that they don't like kids who are over-programmed. In exchange, the college counseling industry is completely eliminated so all of these over-curated kids relax and do what they actually enjoy.

The key to it all is conveying sincerity. That a kid is doing what they do out of true interest and not because some overpriced consultant is telling them to do it. This is hard to tease out. It is why more schools should do interviews as a decent interviewer can figure it out (though a bad interviewer will gush over phony kids). With the huge influx of applications, I wonder whether AO's have time to sort through this.

I do alumni interviewing. And I despise packaged kids. I am generally very easy going but this is what I push on. If a kid does some summer service trip, I try to figure out whether it was meaningful or just drinking beers and hooking up (I generally hate these). If a kid did an internship, I ask how they got it. I had one kid go on and on about a huge project they did for their school junior year that was being implemented senior year. I asked how it was going (halfway through senior year) and they had no idea. Clearly it wasn't important to them.

I long for the days of the well-rounded kid. Not the serial joiner who has no depth. But not to be shamed to be doing a lot of things at the "very good" level but none at the "world class" level. Nice normal kids who will try a lot of things out in college and be a good part of the community. Unfortunately, schools seem to feel otherwise.

Anonymous wrote:Ladies, we get it, right? This is the college app equivalent of going for a "natural look": That means no obvious contouring or "work done" -- but for heaven's sake, please do not misunderstand "natural" to mean "no makeup." Look your best, but keep things understated, ok?

We're going for a NATURAL LOOK. Be packaged -- just don't be OBVIOUS about it!

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, think about it. You have two applicants. Applicant A has high grades and scores and was in band, debate team, choir, environmental club, glee club, art club, science club, toastmasters for teens, DECA, basketball, track, Spanish club, yearbook, cross country, volunteered for a local marathon, volunteers at an animal shelter once a month, likes anime and drawing. Applicant two also has high grades and decent test scores. This applicant is a double black belt in Taekwondo after taking it consistently for twelve years, assists in teaching taekwondo class to littles on Saturday mornings and mentors and inspires them as a Wednesday volunteer math tutor at the dojo during after school care, is in orchestra as first chair cello and plays in a fun quartet on the side, has taken Latin all four years of HS which was hard, is a member of a local "make it" organization that makes robots that compete in local and regional competitions, applicant's team of four placed second at a recent regional meet. That's applicant two's resume in total. Which applicant gives you a better idea of who they are as a person on first read? Who seems more attached to very specific interests over time that tell a simple story and offers a concrete through line as to what the person is all about? I think it's pretty clear.

What is a double black belt in Taekwondo? Do you mean black belt 2nd Dan? If so, that is not impressive at all after 12 years of practice. DC was black belt 4th Dan Taekwondo after 12 years of practice. Was nationally ranked in another NCAA varsity sport and recruited at a T-10 private. Decided to take a full ride in a T-20 private.

How old for 4th Dan?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But what if a kid has more rare interests .. classics/acheology/history/russian literature. They way its all pulled together is less likely to look packaged just bc its more rarely seen (then lets say econ/business kids)

Hard to pull off without seeming like a fake out who is going to change his major to Business or CS a month into the school year.

yes of course; but if a kid is genuinely interested. I am not everyone is business/cs/finance bound

Anonymous wrote:But what if a kid has more rare interests .. classics/acheology/history/russian literature. They way its all pulled together is less likely to look packaged just bc its more rarely seen (then lets say econ/business kids)

Hard to pull off without seeming like a fake out who is going to change his major to Business or CS a month into the school year.

But what if a kid has more rare interests .. classics/acheology/history/russian literature. They way its all pulled together is less likely to look packaged just bc its more rarely seen (then lets say econ/business kids)