Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s caselaw on this. It starts when you get to your desk, unless you work in a specific setting like a prison where you’re responsible for monitoring inmates on the way to your post or a laboratory where you have to put on PPE.

Do you mean the Portal to Portal Act? That does not apply. Or is there case law that specifically applies to feds?

Nobody is recording when you are at your desk but they are recording swipes.

There are FLRA cases that establish the same thing for federal employees.

For salaried employees? Please provide a link.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When they record the data, so whenever you first swipe.

Cool — so I can go chill out for 15 minutes in the lobby and wait till exactly 4:00 and exit the turnstile. I guess that 15 minutes counts.

What a bunch of bs kabuki theater.

Or you could, you know, work a full day and then go home. Do you have any idea how you sound? This whining makes Feds look terrible. Less flexibility these days, but it’s not like the private sector, where you’re on all the time, working weekends and vacations. Maybe you should consider moving and see what it’s like.

Jobs where you work weekends and vacation make multiples of a Feds salary.

And? Feds don’t work weekends and vacation. 8 hours of presence is not a tough ask, especially with the incredibly flexible leave policies most agencies have. As in, I basically can’t ever deny a leave request. Would need a crazy reason. And as many have said—no one is looking to catch people for coming in 15 mins late here and there. This only comes up when you have a bad employee and people notice they aren’t working enough. In those cases the data will usually show a major issue.

I get to my desk at 6 30. I leave my desk at 3. To me that us when I worked. Now if I need to start up my computer, I may not be available at 6 30. If metro is late and I am delayed I stay later.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s caselaw on this. It starts when you get to your desk, unless you work in a specific setting like a prison where you’re responsible for monitoring inmates on the way to your post or a laboratory where you have to put on PPE.

Do you mean the Portal to Portal Act? That does not apply. Or is there case law that specifically applies to feds?

Nobody is recording when you are at your desk but they are recording swipes.

There are FLRA cases that establish the same thing for federal employees.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since Feds are now being treated like 16 yo McDonald’s employees or coal miners in 1904 who have to “clock in” for exactly 8 hours a day (or 8.5 hrs, depending on your interpretation of HR policy), when exactly does that time begin?

When you enter the parking garage using your piv card?

Or when you enter the turnstile?

Or when you get to the elevator?

Or when you get to your office?

Or teachers or nurses or many other professionals.

Not a single teacher is forced to work a precise number of hours every day or “clock in.” And let me know when Feds start getting 3 months off every summer.

Teacher here. At my last school I had to sign in by a certain time or I’d get written up. If I left before a certain time, even by 15 minutes, I was docked a half a day of leave.

But if I worked all weekend to catch up, that was perfectly fine (and expected).

Please don’t be rude. I can sympathize with the OP. This isn’t a competition, and often you don’t know what others experience.

And I don’t get 3 months off every summer. I’m not paid, so I have to find another job.

I'm an attorney so the rules don't apply to me. I come and go whenever I want.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When they record the data, so whenever you first swipe.

Cool — so I can go chill out for 15 minutes in the lobby and wait till exactly 4:00 and exit the turnstile. I guess that 15 minutes counts.

What a bunch of bs kabuki theater.

Or you could, you know, work a full day and then go home. Do you have any idea how you sound? This whining makes Feds look terrible. Less flexibility these days, but it’s not like the private sector, where you’re on all the time, working weekends and vacations. Maybe you should consider moving and see what it’s like.

Jobs where you work weekends and vacation make multiples of a Feds salary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since Feds are now being treated like 16 yo McDonald’s employees or coal miners in 1904 who have to “clock in” for exactly 8 hours a day (or 8.5 hrs, depending on your interpretation of HR policy), when exactly does that time begin?

When you enter the parking garage using your piv card?

Or when you enter the turnstile?

Or when you get to the elevator?

Or when you get to your office?

Or teachers or nurses or many other professionals.

Not a single teacher is forced to work a precise number of hours every day or “clock in.” And let me know when Feds start getting 3 months off every summer.

Lol. I work in Baltimore City schools and starting next week, we have to clock in every morning (we've always had to sign in). Hourly employees have to clock out too. We also have to check our hours in order to get paid. If we don't validate them, we won't get paid. Teachers don't get off 3 months every summer. My contract ends after 190 days. I am not employed by the school district in the nine and a half weeks in the summer.

Anonymous wrote:There’s caselaw on this. It starts when you get to your desk, unless you work in a specific setting like a prison where you’re responsible for monitoring inmates on the way to your post or a laboratory where you have to put on PPE.

Do you mean the Portal to Portal Act? That does not apply. Or is there case law that specifically applies to feds?

Nobody is recording when you are at your desk but they are recording swipes.

Anonymous wrote:There’s caselaw on this. It starts when you get to your desk, unless you work in a specific setting like a prison where you’re responsible for monitoring inmates on the way to your post or a laboratory where you have to put on PPE.

Pretty sure that applies to hourly non-exempt compensation.

This question is mostly about exempt employees who are not paid according to the number of hours worked. This is more about tracking the use of tax payer dollars. But I suppose it would be a useful analogy for policy setting.

Anonymous wrote:At my fed office you have to swipe your PIV card to drive into (and out of) the garage. So if we're playing games here.....................

depends on the agency. we badge in and out of the garage but those readers are not managed by the agency, they are owned by the landlord. so those swipes will not show up in the HR systems.

lobby security turnstile is likely the farthest swipe that counts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When they record the data, so whenever you first swipe.

Cool — so I can go chill out for 15 minutes in the lobby and wait till exactly 4:00 and exit the turnstile. I guess that 15 minutes counts.

What a bunch of bs kabuki theater.

Or you could, you know, work a full day and then go home. Do you have any idea how you sound? This whining makes Feds look terrible. Less flexibility these days, but it’s not like the private sector, where you’re on all the time, working weekends and vacations. Maybe you should consider moving and see what it’s like.

Yeah you're right - all those NASA people getting Artemis to and from the moon didn't work any weekends or flexible time or anything.
You people are insufferable and clueless about fed jobs.

I know a lot about fed jobs. Very few of us get to say we work that hard. NASA is hardly an example of a typical workforce. Most of us are bureaucrats. I’m one. NASA has them too. It’s not a pejorative. I know what I signed up for and it’s important but I’m not sleeping at the office. Some people are, of course, but not OP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When they record the data, so whenever you first swipe.

Cool — so I can go chill out for 15 minutes in the lobby and wait till exactly 4:00 and exit the turnstile. I guess that 15 minutes counts.

What a bunch of bs kabuki theater.

Or you could, you know, work a full day and then go home. Do you have any idea how you sound? This whining makes Feds look terrible. Less flexibility these days, but it’s not like the private sector, where you’re on all the time, working weekends and vacations. Maybe you should consider moving and see what it’s like.

Yeah you're right - all those NASA people getting Artemis to and from the moon didn't work any weekends or flexible time or anything.
You people are insufferable and clueless about fed jobs.

I count when I swipe in/out at the building entrance. Someone else was counting when they logged in/off to the computer. That was my bar at home, but not in the stupid office.

Anonymous wrote:Not to derail but you really have a "PIV card"?

Lol, yes. That is what our badges are called. (Not OP, just another fed.)