Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As best as I can tell, they are trying to get rid of self contained SPED rooms and make everything team taught (but only half team taught, as the sped teacher will bounce around between rooms)

It's a pipe dream and will not work in FCPS because they are using inclusion to save money (not have to hire as many SPED teachers) when doing inclusion well actually costs MORE money because they need more sped teachers to share gen ed rooms.

This is what's happening. It's already been a ****show at the schools piloting it but FCPS is trying to keep that part quiet.

It's not just sped, it's ESOL too. They are throwing kids who are severely autistic, kids who don't speak two words of English, and "regular" kids all in the same room and thinking if they put a specialist in there with the classroom teacher that's somehow going to work. All the teachers have clearly said it's a disaster, but the county completely ignores that. Someone needs to speak up, and they aren't going to listen to teachers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid in a gen ed math class in HS was in a team taught class and it was a terrible experience-the worst teacher in the whole school.

How come?

She was terrible at math. Taking AP history and English, but needed regular math.

FWIW, my son with an IEP (from 2nd through 12th grades) was in a team taught class for English in MS and HS but was in Honors and AP classes for all his other classes (receiving his accommodations in those classes). It worked well. He has dyslexia and dysgraphia. He went on to major in math in college and is now in graduate school in a math field. He has and continues to receive similar accommodations throughout.

Regarding students in honors who are significantly lower than their peers: Many years ago, a recommendation from the previous year's English teacher was required to take Honors or AP English. Now, we can strongly recommend general education classes and tell the student why that is our recommendation, but the student has the choice to disregard what we say. This is FCPS's "open enrollment" policy. It's another "great in theory, great for optics" idea where we look good by saying "x% of FCPS students are taking rigorous courses" while in reality, the teachers are often having to dilute content to reach the students who really would have been better served in a different setting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve taught and this type of inclusion is not a good idea, nor is it fair to anyone.

Under this model, the pace of learning necessarily must slow to the rate of the slowest challenged learner. This slow pace leads to boredom for all the students capable of accelerated or even a normal pace of learning.

It’s also unfair to the special educational needs students because regular Gen Ed teachers don’t have the training or degrees of specialist teachers and are not as prepared to handle the unique needs of this student population; an occasional visit by a specialist is a sorry, “band-aid” approach which is not effective.

FCPS needs to end this practice for everyone’s sake.

This isn’t why team taught is. Are you talking about something else?

Inclusion in general

Inclusion does work for certain profiles of kids with learning issues and some mental health issues. An IEP should not be an automatic pass to a special class for kids with IEPs. But the kids it works for are kids that need less intensive scaffolding and can keep pace with the class with some accomodations, like listening to a book in English instead of reading the book or extra time on tests because of how the student processes.

There are kids with emotional issues and mental health issues who can be in the regular class once they have been able to address the underlying issue but might need some supports to help them maintain that placement.

Inclusion doesn't work for the kid who is regularly clearing out the classroom, attacking teachers or students, or not able to function in the class because they are overwhelmed.

Team Taught classes can be great but it depends on the teachers in the class. We had a friend who was in a team taught class and still did not get the help that they needed because both teachers were not good. The regular teacher was more focused on being a tiktoc influencer and the SPED teacher did not even meet th basic requirements of the kids IEP. He did well in the class but his anxiety levels were through the roof. As in all things, the concept only works if the people who are leading it are good at their jobs. Sometimes one or the other is not, on a rare occassion they are both bad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve taught and this type of inclusion is not a good idea, nor is it fair to anyone.

Under this model, the pace of learning necessarily must slow to the rate of the slowest challenged learner. This slow pace leads to boredom for all the students capable of accelerated or even a normal pace of learning.

It’s also unfair to the special educational needs students because regular Gen Ed teachers don’t have the training or degrees of specialist teachers and are not as prepared to handle the unique needs of this student population; an occasional visit by a specialist is a sorry, “band-aid” approach which is not effective.

FCPS needs to end this practice for everyone’s sake.

This isn’t why team taught is. Are you talking about something else?

Inclusion in general

I did not write this response; someone else did.

There can be a place for inclusion, if we are honest about its limitations and limit it to (for example) P.E. or perhaps art instruction.

But for academic topics, “team-taught” / inclusion is unfair to everyone and not the right pathway.

However, someone on page one of this thread posted an FCPS link demonstrating it’s exactly the pathway FCPS has chosen.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve taught and this type of inclusion is not a good idea, nor is it fair to anyone.

Under this model, the pace of learning necessarily must slow to the rate of the slowest challenged learner. This slow pace leads to boredom for all the students capable of accelerated or even a normal pace of learning.

It’s also unfair to the special educational needs students because regular Gen Ed teachers don’t have the training or degrees of specialist teachers and are not as prepared to handle the unique needs of this student population; an occasional visit by a specialist is a sorry, “band-aid” approach which is not effective.

FCPS needs to end this practice for everyone’s sake.

This isn’t why team taught is. Are you talking about something else?

Inclusion in general

Anonymous wrote:I’ve taught and this type of inclusion is not a good idea, nor is it fair to anyone.

Under this model, the pace of learning necessarily must slow to the rate of the slowest challenged learner. This slow pace leads to boredom for all the students capable of accelerated or even a normal pace of learning.

It’s also unfair to the special educational needs students because regular Gen Ed teachers don’t have the training or degrees of specialist teachers and are not as prepared to handle the unique needs of this student population; an occasional visit by a specialist is a sorry, “band-aid” approach which is not effective.

FCPS needs to end this practice for everyone’s sake.

This isn’t why team taught is. Are you talking about something else?

I’ve taught and this type of inclusion is not a good idea, nor is it fair to anyone.

Under this model, the pace of learning necessarily must slow to the rate of the slowest challenged learner. This slow pace leads to boredom for all the students capable of accelerated or even a normal pace of learning.

It’s also unfair to the special educational needs students because regular Gen Ed teachers don’t have the training or degrees of specialist teachers and are not as prepared to handle the unique needs of this student population; an occasional visit by a specialist is a sorry, “band-aid” approach which is not effective.

FCPS needs to end this practice for everyone’s sake.

Anonymous wrote:My kid in a gen ed math class in HS was in a team taught class and it was a terrible experience-the worst teacher in the whole school.

How come?

Anonymous wrote:My kid in a gen ed math class in HS was in a team taught class and it was a terrible experience-the worst teacher in the whole school.

Sorry that happened. That's not the norm, though.

My kid in a gen ed math class in HS was in a team taught class and it was a terrible experience-the worst teacher in the whole school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid was in a team taught class in elementary for a couple years and it was hell. There were peers with pretty bad behaviors. Every day I would hear a new story. Choosing honors in middle school was a way for my child to escape those kids. We don’t want them back in class.

There are team taught honors classes.

Most HS do not have TT honors classes. They don't even have TT foreign language classes.

I have a senior who has had a 504 plan since 3rd grade and an IEP since 5th. Upper elementary were the worst years. The kids are too big for the classroom, with the same kids all day, don't have any personal space, and are peak meanness. Middle school for my kid was COVID and by HS, they kids are more mature, they change classes throughout the day, are sitting at desks instead of on carpets half the time, and aren't as mean (at least the boys). That said, the HS classes that my kid complained about as being the worst behaved classes were his Gen Ed/non-team taught classes. TT classes were fine in terms of behavior, with two teachers to keep things running. The couple of honors classes he was in were fine. Those Gen Ed kids though would not shut up and would not listen to the teachers.

Anonymous wrote:My kid was in a team taught class in elementary for a couple years and it was hell. There were peers with pretty bad behaviors. Every day I would hear a new story. Choosing honors in middle school was a way for my child to escape those kids. We don’t want them back in class.

There are team taught honors classes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t want my honors kid stuck in an inclusion class in middle school or high school. No way! That’s why we took honors in the first place!

I assume this is a joke - the curriculum is still the same.

You can’t be serious. The pacing and peer group will be totally different and not appropriate for my honors kid to be with special needs kids. Eff that!

There are kids with IEPs that can keep up with the pacing and be friends with kids without IEPs. Some need audio books and/or text to spearhead and speech to text capabilities.