PP and I’ll add that my DD is very envious of her friends in well-organized Japanese Saturday schools. I’m on the west coast and some of them even break for winter to switch to be a Japanese ski school.

I think Cantonese learning was really impacted by the reasons behind the Cantonese diaspora. Colonialism, built-in admiration in well-educated older generations for British and English-speaking culture, and a self-defeating but admirably practical attitude about learning Mandarin are complex cultural hurdles that have blocked the development of Cantonese language learning in the U.S.

Anonymous wrote:Op here. My first language is cantonese, and it is more HARDER to learn compared to Mandarin Chinese. I grew up learning it without using phonics, but just pure memorization word by word onto my brain. What you read is not what you speak, and that is the hardest part of learning cantonese which I cannot even know how to explain.

First language for my parents are not even Cantonese or Mandarin Chinese. First language for my in-laws are also not Cantonese or Mandarin Chinese. First language for my DH is English, and he does not speak or understand Cantonese. My kids find it hard to learn Mandarin Chinese, and there is no way that they can learn Cantonese.

Sort-of Canto mom here. I feel your agony, OP. I’m a white mom that married into the culture and my reluctantly Cantonese-understanding-but-not-speaking DH refused to help with Cantonese school. The grandparents encouraged mandarin which also didn’t help. My DD was desperate to learn Cantonese so for years she did online tutoring, which was awful because I was learning it a few days ahead of her and DH didn’t want to help. It got really epic when we added a reading and writing class. Eventually she got to the point where I couldn’t help her keep up and DH forced her to quit.

DD speaks frequently of regretting quitting and it breaks my heart. I love the language and how humorous it can be but it’s really tough to learn outside of a few communities in the US.

It’s really hard to be the non-speaking mom trying to transmit or sustain a heritage language. In my experience the Cantonese community expects moms to carry the culture and heritage and can gatekeep or even be outright rude to children and mothers who don’t speak it. And my friends and I have noticed a pattern of parents of 1st gen boys “letting” the boys let the language go but expecting their daughters to carry it on, which adds a messy gender dynamic and a lot of resentment and hard feelings on all sides.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

DCUM is not the right place to have this discussion. Most posters never force their kids to do anything, and have an unhealthy fixation on sports.

Being proficient in Mandarin Chinese will be an asset for our children's generation. It will be easier if they learn as kids, and not as adults. Please do this for your children. When they're teens, they will understand the gift they've been given. Young kids never do, and yes, you will need to drag them to weekend school kicking and screaming. Too bad. There is a payoff at the end, and it's major. Even for college admissions, they will have an advantage.

We're not of Chinese ancestry, but I dragged my kids kicking and screaming to their native language school for years. As teens, they went willingly. They picked a different language at school, which meant that for college admissions, they had to all intents and purposes, two foreign languages, studied to AP level (one native, one non-native).

Our world is becoming more and more connected and China is the next Superpower. It's a no-brainer.

My kids have been attending heritage language school since pre-k and I know the effort and the sacrifice that goes into it. I also know the heritage school on its own is nowhere enough without reading books, watching movies, speaking, and visiting home country for “immersion experience”.

Given what op mentioned in her post, OP’s kids will not become proficient simply because they won’t have chance to practice the language. Not even at home, which is already minimal given they spend at least 40 hours at school.

There are other options, like doing Duolingo or taking it in highschool, that will end up with same result for op given op’s specific circumstances.

The only benefit I see for op, is for kids to get to know their community, but there maybe other options for that for mandarin speakers outside of heritage language school.

I entirely disagree that weekend language schools offer the equivalent of Duolingo or taking it in high school! That's a blatant lie. I am surrounded by families who attend their weekend native language schools (Mandarin, Japanese, French, German, Spanish) and even the kids who don't speak much at home are way ahead of those whose parents native speakers but who do not receive formal instruction. You cannot beat formal instruction in a language, PP. My kids go to the French school. They have better fluency, and a stronger vocabulary and grammar than a French family we know who never sent their kids to that school, but speak French at home and send their children to France in the summer. We speak Frenglish at home, and have never sent our kids to France in the summer.

Please don't spread disinformation like this.

Don't take this the wrong way because I love French, but it is a very different language compared to Chinese. French is a language where you need to spend hours formally memorizing grammer conjugations. Chinese is not (there is no verb conjugation). French lends itself more easily to learning a couple hours on weekends both because of its similarity to English and its strong phonetic basis. Chinese is not at all phonics based. I really think Chinese takes much more dedication to get even the foundations compared to any romance-based language for English speakers.

PP you replied to. Oh I entirely agree! But just because it’s harder doesn’t mean OP’s family shouldn’t try. The Japanese language school goes on all day, not just for half the day, for this reason. We have good Japanese, Korean and Chinese friends who invest in their heritage language. This is what OP should do. It’s worth it. The only families who regret something are the ones who didn’t try! We all have kids in college or high school, so I can give OP the perspective on the tail end of the school years. My college kid was well placed to take a 3000 level French class freshman year, which in turn gave him a leg up for a selective study abroad program at Sciences Po Paris, in French. I hear and understand that it takes more effort for Mandarin, but please… try. Persistence pays off. You think you’re starting from a position of relative weakness, but with persistence, your kid might run rings around the more bicultural speakers.

Anonymous wrote:OP,

DCUM is not the right place to have this discussion. Most posters never force their kids to do anything, and have an unhealthy fixation on sports.

Being proficient in Mandarin Chinese will be an asset for our children's generation. It will be easier if they learn as kids, and not as adults. Please do this for your children. When they're teens, they will understand the gift they've been given. Young kids never do, and yes, you will need to drag them to weekend school kicking and screaming. Too bad. There is a payoff at the end, and it's major. Even for college admissions, they will have an advantage.

We're not of Chinese ancestry, but I dragged my kids kicking and screaming to their native language school for years. As teens, they went willingly. They picked a different language at school, which meant that for college admissions, they had to all intents and purposes, two foreign languages, studied to AP level (one native, one non-native).

Our world is becoming more and more connected and China is the next Superpower. It's a no-brainer.

Hello 1992

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

DCUM is not the right place to have this discussion. Most posters never force their kids to do anything, and have an unhealthy fixation on sports.

Being proficient in Mandarin Chinese will be an asset for our children's generation. It will be easier if they learn as kids, and not as adults. Please do this for your children. When they're teens, they will understand the gift they've been given. Young kids never do, and yes, you will need to drag them to weekend school kicking and screaming. Too bad. There is a payoff at the end, and it's major. Even for college admissions, they will have an advantage.

We're not of Chinese ancestry, but I dragged my kids kicking and screaming to their native language school for years. As teens, they went willingly. They picked a different language at school, which meant that for college admissions, they had to all intents and purposes, two foreign languages, studied to AP level (one native, one non-native).

Our world is becoming more and more connected and China is the next Superpower. It's a no-brainer.

My kids have been attending heritage language school since pre-k and I know the effort and the sacrifice that goes into it. I also know the heritage school on its own is nowhere enough without reading books, watching movies, speaking, and visiting home country for “immersion experience”.

Given what op mentioned in her post, OP’s kids will not become proficient simply because they won’t have chance to practice the language. Not even at home, which is already minimal given they spend at least 40 hours at school.

There are other options, like doing Duolingo or taking it in highschool, that will end up with same result for op given op’s specific circumstances.

The only benefit I see for op, is for kids to get to know their community, but there maybe other options for that for mandarin speakers outside of heritage language school.

I entirely disagree that weekend language schools offer the equivalent of Duolingo or taking it in high school! That's a blatant lie. I am surrounded by families who attend their weekend native language schools (Mandarin, Japanese, French, German, Spanish) and even the kids who don't speak much at home are way ahead of those whose parents native speakers but who do not receive formal instruction. You cannot beat formal instruction in a language, PP. My kids go to the French school. They have better fluency, and a stronger vocabulary and grammar than a French family we know who never sent their kids to that school, but speak French at home and send their children to France in the summer. We speak Frenglish at home, and have never sent our kids to France in the summer.

Please don't spread disinformation like this.

My observations are very different. I see kids who can read but who don’t understand what they are reading because of a limited vocabulary because parents don’t speak the language at home. Their speech patterns and accent do not sound native. This is still great and amazing but I don’t think it beats talking to your child at home.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

DCUM is not the right place to have this discussion. Most posters never force their kids to do anything, and have an unhealthy fixation on sports.

Being proficient in Mandarin Chinese will be an asset for our children's generation. It will be easier if they learn as kids, and not as adults. Please do this for your children. When they're teens, they will understand the gift they've been given. Young kids never do, and yes, you will need to drag them to weekend school kicking and screaming. Too bad. There is a payoff at the end, and it's major. Even for college admissions, they will have an advantage.

We're not of Chinese ancestry, but I dragged my kids kicking and screaming to their native language school for years. As teens, they went willingly. They picked a different language at school, which meant that for college admissions, they had to all intents and purposes, two foreign languages, studied to AP level (one native, one non-native).

Our world is becoming more and more connected and China is the next Superpower. It's a no-brainer.

My kids have been attending heritage language school since pre-k and I know the effort and the sacrifice that goes into it. I also know the heritage school on its own is nowhere enough without reading books, watching movies, speaking, and visiting home country for “immersion experience”.

Given what op mentioned in her post, OP’s kids will not become proficient simply because they won’t have chance to practice the language. Not even at home, which is already minimal given they spend at least 40 hours at school.

There are other options, like doing Duolingo or taking it in highschool, that will end up with same result for op given op’s specific circumstances.

The only benefit I see for op, is for kids to get to know their community, but there maybe other options for that for mandarin speakers outside of heritage language school.

I entirely disagree that weekend language schools offer the equivalent of Duolingo or taking it in high school! That's a blatant lie. I am surrounded by families who attend their weekend native language schools (Mandarin, Japanese, French, German, Spanish) and even the kids who don't speak much at home are way ahead of those whose parents native speakers but who do not receive formal instruction. You cannot beat formal instruction in a language, PP. My kids go to the French school. They have better fluency, and a stronger vocabulary and grammar than a French family we know who never sent their kids to that school, but speak French at home and send their children to France in the summer. We speak Frenglish at home, and have never sent our kids to France in the summer.

Please don't spread disinformation like this.

Don't take this the wrong way because I love French, but it is a very different language compared to Chinese. French is a language where you need to spend hours formally memorizing grammer conjugations. Chinese is not (there is no verb conjugation). French lends itself more easily to learning a couple hours on weekends both because of its similarity to English and its strong phonetic basis. Chinese is not at all phonics based. I really think Chinese takes much more dedication to get even the foundations compared to any romance-based language for English speakers.

I have European ancestry. I was a French minor and my husband was a Russian major in college. I have friends and colleagues from all over the globe who are bilingual and even trilingual. I have Wasian family members (Korean background). I've had friends who adopted from China. I've had friends who sent their kids to weekend Chinese school. My kid is studying online Chinese in high school. Because he decided he wanted to learn it. I have friends who are Black (American and British) who met and fell in love at Chinese language school in Taiwan. They used their skills to work in mainland China for several years but don't use it anymore.

So...I've seen a lot of takes on people's involvement with foreign language learning, both from a heritage and non-heritage perspective.

I personally think you should have your kids try to take Chinese either at summer camps (Concordia or ones run by affiliation orgs) or in their public schools. You should only tie up their weekends if that's how they want to use their weekends. If they grow in enthusiasm, nurture the spark. If they remain indifferent, let it go.

Honestly there are too many Chinese people worldwide who speak excellent English for most American-born English speakers to really profit from knowing Chinese. So the rationale for study needs to come from students' personal motivations or just the need to fulfil graduation requirements in a language. It is still possible for people who start late to gain decent fluency if they are a committed student and most importantly have real opportunities to use the language.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

DCUM is not the right place to have this discussion. Most posters never force their kids to do anything, and have an unhealthy fixation on sports.

Being proficient in Mandarin Chinese will be an asset for our children's generation. It will be easier if they learn as kids, and not as adults. Please do this for your children. When they're teens, they will understand the gift they've been given. Young kids never do, and yes, you will need to drag them to weekend school kicking and screaming. Too bad. There is a payoff at the end, and it's major. Even for college admissions, they will have an advantage.

We're not of Chinese ancestry, but I dragged my kids kicking and screaming to their native language school for years. As teens, they went willingly. They picked a different language at school, which meant that for college admissions, they had to all intents and purposes, two foreign languages, studied to AP level (one native, one non-native).

Our world is becoming more and more connected and China is the next Superpower. It's a no-brainer.

My kids have been attending heritage language school since pre-k and I know the effort and the sacrifice that goes into it. I also know the heritage school on its own is nowhere enough without reading books, watching movies, speaking, and visiting home country for “immersion experience”.

Given what op mentioned in her post, OP’s kids will not become proficient simply because they won’t have chance to practice the language. Not even at home, which is already minimal given they spend at least 40 hours at school.

There are other options, like doing Duolingo or taking it in highschool, that will end up with same result for op given op’s specific circumstances.

The only benefit I see for op, is for kids to get to know their community, but there maybe other options for that for mandarin speakers outside of heritage language school.

The parents speak the language! Plenty of kids go to school all day and come home to a different language. Duolingo will not work as the primary source.

I would choose Chinese school. I remember when dd was in 1st grade and they had hung up some of their writing. I couldn’t believe how good the Asian kids could write. Flawless. I know they went to Chinese school on weekends.

Start speaking Mandarin to them. It will be worth it when they are adults. American born kids whose family has been here awhile rarely speak two languages.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

DCUM is not the right place to have this discussion. Most posters never force their kids to do anything, and have an unhealthy fixation on sports.

Being proficient in Mandarin Chinese will be an asset for our children's generation. It will be easier if they learn as kids, and not as adults. Please do this for your children. When they're teens, they will understand the gift they've been given. Young kids never do, and yes, you will need to drag them to weekend school kicking and screaming. Too bad. There is a payoff at the end, and it's major. Even for college admissions, they will have an advantage.

We're not of Chinese ancestry, but I dragged my kids kicking and screaming to their native language school for years. As teens, they went willingly. They picked a different language at school, which meant that for college admissions, they had to all intents and purposes, two foreign languages, studied to AP level (one native, one non-native).

Our world is becoming more and more connected and China is the next Superpower. It's a no-brainer.

My kids have been attending heritage language school since pre-k and I know the effort and the sacrifice that goes into it. I also know the heritage school on its own is nowhere enough without reading books, watching movies, speaking, and visiting home country for “immersion experience”.

Given what op mentioned in her post, OP’s kids will not become proficient simply because they won’t have chance to practice the language. Not even at home, which is already minimal given they spend at least 40 hours at school.

There are other options, like doing Duolingo or taking it in highschool, that will end up with same result for op given op’s specific circumstances.

The only benefit I see for op, is for kids to get to know their community, but there maybe other options for that for mandarin speakers outside of heritage language school.

I entirely disagree that weekend language schools offer the equivalent of Duolingo or taking it in high school! That's a blatant lie. I am surrounded by families who attend their weekend native language schools (Mandarin, Japanese, French, German, Spanish) and even the kids who don't speak much at home are way ahead of those whose parents native speakers but who do not receive formal instruction. You cannot beat formal instruction in a language, PP. My kids go to the French school. They have better fluency, and a stronger vocabulary and grammar than a French family we know who never sent their kids to that school, but speak French at home and send their children to France in the summer. We speak Frenglish at home, and have never sent our kids to France in the summer.

Please don't spread disinformation like this.

I spoke Cantonese growing up but my vocabulary is very limited. My husband is an ABC too and does not speak any Chinese. My kids willingly did weekly mandarin lessons with an online tutor. They never became fluent with these lessons. But now they are in college and have chosen to take mandarin.

Immersion is key. My child goes to a "heritage language" school. At the pick up I can see which parent speaks English to kids and which speaks the other language. The older kids are, the more obvious the difference in the outcome becomes. If you don't speak Chinese at home, it is pretty much the same as learning a foreign language, and it's up to you and the kids whether it's a good investment of your time (I would say yes, but everyone is different). May be focusing on culture, stories, traditions is something that will work better in your situation.

Anonymous wrote:OP,

DCUM is not the right place to have this discussion. Most posters never force their kids to do anything, and have an unhealthy fixation on sports.

Being proficient in Mandarin Chinese will be an asset for our children's generation. It will be easier if they learn as kids, and not as adults. Please do this for your children. When they're teens, they will understand the gift they've been given. Young kids never do, and yes, you will need to drag them to weekend school kicking and screaming. Too bad. There is a payoff at the end, and it's major. Even for college admissions, they will have an advantage.

We're not of Chinese ancestry, but I dragged my kids kicking and screaming to their native language school for years. As teens, they went willingly. They picked a different language at school, which meant that for college admissions, they had to all intents and purposes, two foreign languages, studied to AP level (one native, one non-native).

Our world is becoming more and more connected and China is the next Superpower. It's a no-brainer.

My kids have been attending heritage language school since pre-k and I know the effort and the sacrifice that goes into it. I also know the heritage school on its own is nowhere enough without reading books, watching movies, speaking, and visiting home country for “immersion experience”.

Given what op mentioned in her post, OP’s kids will not become proficient simply because they won’t have chance to practice the language. Not even at home, which is already minimal given they spend at least 40 hours at school.

There are other options, like doing Duolingo or taking it in highschool, that will end up with same result for op given op’s specific circumstances.

The only benefit I see for op, is for kids to get to know their community, but there maybe other options for that for mandarin speakers outside of heritage language school.

Anonymous wrote:We have three heritage languages between DH and I, plus English. We let go of 2 Asian languages (not anything to do with China) and focused on the one we both speak best, a European language. To do this, my kids have attended their weekend language school since they were little. It is a PRIORITY: until certain high school events, nothing was allowed to come before their language classes.

Mandarin Chinese, while perhaps not a heritage language for you, if your families speak other Chinese languages, is still geopolitically critical for your children. I would move heaven and earth, OP, to have them attend their weekend classes. It's WAY more important than sports or scouts. You will definitely regret not giving this opportunity to your children.

Don't let your kids pressure you. Young children are always unhappy at having to give up some of their weekend. It's only when they get to middle school and realize that other American kids are struggling to pick up a foreign language that they will start feeling good about their bilingualism!

What does it mean for mandarin to be geopolitically important to your average Chinese American kid? I grew up with everyone saying how important it is to learn mandarin for career paths but I don't think this ever played out for anyone. There are simply way too many people who are fluent in both English and Chinese for the average ABC to leverage their elementary Chinese in any professional setting.

OP,

DCUM is not the right place to have this discussion. Most posters never force their kids to do anything, and have an unhealthy fixation on sports.

Being proficient in Mandarin Chinese will be an asset for our children's generation. It will be easier if they learn as kids, and not as adults. Please do this for your children. When they're teens, they will understand the gift they've been given. Young kids never do, and yes, you will need to drag them to weekend school kicking and screaming. Too bad. There is a payoff at the end, and it's major. Even for college admissions, they will have an advantage.

We're not of Chinese ancestry, but I dragged my kids kicking and screaming to their native language school for years. As teens, they went willingly. They picked a different language at school, which meant that for college admissions, they had to all intents and purposes, two foreign languages, studied to AP level (one native, one non-native).

Our world is becoming more and more connected and China is the next Superpower. It's a no-brainer.