Anonymous wrote:These are the same kids. Many apply to both more elite state schools and private and often get in to both. And many will choose a state school over “top 20” privates.

Agreed. I mean there are Top Public Universities like say UT-Austin and Georgia Tech, to name a few, that get thousands of OOS apps where the OOS admission rate is in the single digits and they don't do TO. Also, these schools usually draw thousands more applications due to the attractiveness of the relative affordability. So, agree many of the same applicants are applying to both. What school these students choose depends on a lot of personal subjective factors such as costs and affordability.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To get into most state flagships like UT Austin or UVA, you need top academics, leadership experience, heavy involvement during the summer, volunteering, and more. What extra things do students do to get into top 20 universities?

There are two words that definitely help = FULL PAY. Plenty of kids at flagships who would be competitive for a T20, but their parents told them what was the budget and they applied accordingly.

+1000

FULL PAY = AUTO ADMIT TO HYPSM

Common sense.

Anonymous wrote:So my daughter was accepted to Brown, Cornell, Northwestern, Michigan and WashU a couple of years ago She had a perfect GPA, 1560 SAT and received the Governor's Merit Scholastic Award. She did debate, mock trial and worked both her junior and senior years. Exceptional ECs, as defined by this group, probably not. However, we think she exhibited in her applications and essays a honesty and transparency into who she is as an individual.

How does the answer OP's question?

These are the same kids. Many apply to both more elite state schools and private and often get in to both. And many will choose a state school over “top 20” privates.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Might got not be the answer OP wants to hear, but there is little difference between the two. Someone who got into impacted majors at Michigan OOS likely will get into WashU and vice versa.

Don’t think it’s true for Michigan OOS for CS/Engineering/Business. Those kids who end up there were shut out of private T20 options.

Not the same for undersubscribed majors.

Don't think that WashU is a top 20 so....

Other than that, do know OOS folks in some of those majors at Michigan. Nearly all applied to a T20.

Anonymous wrote:To get into most state flagships like UT Austin or UVA, you need top academics, leadership experience, heavy involvement during the summer, volunteering, and more. What extra things do students do to get into top 20 universities?

There are two words that definitely help = FULL PAY. Plenty of kids at flagships who would be competitive for a T20, but their parents told them what was the budget and they applied accordingly.

Anonymous wrote:$$$. That's your answer. $$$.

Yup. This obsession with T20 schools only exists in a very narrow segment of the population, and those people will spend all sorts of money on activities, camps, and whatever builds the resume for a T20. Larlo from the mid-sized city suburb's mom is not funding his nonprofit for a college app boost.

Anonymous wrote:So my daughter was accepted to Brown, Cornell, Northwestern, Michigan and WashU a couple of years ago She had a perfect GPA, 1560 SAT and received the Governor's Merit Scholastic Award. She did debate, mock trial and worked both her junior and senior years. Exceptional ECs, as defined by this group, probably not. However, we think she exhibited in her applications and essays a honesty and transparency into who she is as an individual.

What major?

Anonymous wrote:Might got not be the answer OP wants to hear, but there is little difference between the two. Someone who got into impacted majors at Michigan OOS likely will get into WashU and vice versa.

Don’t think it’s true for Michigan OOS for CS/Engineering/Business. Those kids who end up there were shut out of private T20 options.

Not the same for undersubscribed majors.

So my daughter was accepted to Brown, Cornell, Northwestern, Michigan and WashU a couple of years ago She had a perfect GPA, 1560 SAT and received the Governor's Merit Scholastic Award. She did debate, mock trial and worked both her junior and senior years. Exceptional ECs, as defined by this group, probably not. However, we think she exhibited in her applications and essays a honesty and transparency into who she is as an individual.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP was asking non-overlapping cases so stop saying there is plenty of overlap. OP asked for the reason why someone only got into state flagships but not T20.

OP did not actually ask that. But even if she did, the premise that there is a meaningful distinction between the kids who get into top flagships and T20s is faulty. T10 or just Ivy might have been a different question/story.

Agreed. I mean there are Top publics that are test required whose OOS acceptance rate rival Top 10 schools. That's just a fact. These Top OOS publics draw even thousands of more applications in some cases because of the tuition in many cases is much more affordable so top students are choosing this route.

My kid went to public magnet program. Perfect application and stats. Chose UMD CS. We are not donut hole. It did not hurt that UMD gave 50K in scholarship over 4 years.

Anonymous wrote:OP was asking non-overlapping cases so stop saying there is plenty of overlap. OP asked for the reason why someone only got into state flagships but not T20.

OP did not actually ask that. But even if she did, the premise that there is a meaningful distinction between the kids who get into top flagships and T20s is faulty. T10 or just Ivy might have been a different question/story.

Anonymous wrote:OP was asking non-overlapping cases so stop saying there is plenty of overlap. OP asked for the reason why someone only got into state flagships but not T20.

Maybe they didn’t apply to any T20 schools.