Anonymous wrote:OP here. I'm talking specifically people who have done harm, not just people whose views you disagree with (or even find abhorrent).

I'm talking about situations where a person has hurt a person or persons (physically, emotionally, financially), you are aware they did it, they've never expressed remorse or made amends. So like just generally being anti-vax wouldn't fit, but knowingly sending an unvaccinated kid to school during a measles outbreak, resulting in that kid getting measles, would. Not saying being anti vax is good, but for purposes of these questions I'm thinking about concrete harm, not just thoughts or ideas.

I'm specifically interested in how people are willing to turn a blind eye when harm is done to others.

I think plenty of people can argue that not vaccinating your kids is actually causing harm to others but ok.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was friends for a while with someone who has zero moral compass. She is charismatic and incredibly funny but one day I realized her humor was rooted in mocking other people, and that it actually wasn't funny. Also, I didn't want someone in my life who could lie and steal with impunity. She was notorious for stealing clients from others. I considered myself immune from her predatory behavior. I'm glad I had that epiphany that she's actually an awful person and I ended the friendship and never looked back. A few years later she had her first child. I didn't say it out loud it but plenty of people in our orbit did - that child was born with severe SN and it seemed like the universe sent her a message. I haven't seen her in years.

This is what this thread is in a nutshell - bunch of people who want their belief in just world validated and hope that bad things will never happen to them.

I hate to break your bubble, but severe SN children happen to the most righteous people too. And can happen to you or your children, even if you never stole clients or laughed behind someone’s back. Speaking of that, how righteous the people in your orbit really are if they gloated about someone having a child with severe SN? Maybe universe has a thing for them too.

I mean, yes, this, but even more so - SN children aren't a curse. To think that having a SN child is some kind of karmic punishment is so awful I can't even believe someone typed that out.

Anonymous wrote:I was friends for a while with someone who has zero moral compass. She is charismatic and incredibly funny but one day I realized her humor was rooted in mocking other people, and that it actually wasn't funny. Also, I didn't want someone in my life who could lie and steal with impunity. She was notorious for stealing clients from others. I considered myself immune from her predatory behavior. I'm glad I had that epiphany that she's actually an awful person and I ended the friendship and never looked back. A few years later she had her first child. I didn't say it out loud it but plenty of people in our orbit did - that child was born with severe SN and it seemed like the universe sent her a message. I haven't seen her in years.

That is a despicable thing to say.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was friends for a while with someone who has zero moral compass. She is charismatic and incredibly funny but one day I realized her humor was rooted in mocking other people, and that it actually wasn't funny. Also, I didn't want someone in my life who could lie and steal with impunity. She was notorious for stealing clients from others. I considered myself immune from her predatory behavior. I'm glad I had that epiphany that she's actually an awful person and I ended the friendship and never looked back. A few years later she had her first child. I didn't say it out loud it but plenty of people in our orbit did - that child was born with severe SN and it seemed like the universe sent her a message. I haven't seen her in years.

This is what this thread is in a nutshell - bunch of people who want their belief in just world validated and hope that bad things will never happen to them.

I hate to break your bubble, but severe SN children happen to the most righteous people too. And can happen to you or your children, even if you never stole clients or laughed behind someone’s back. Speaking of that, how righteous the people in your orbit really are if they gloated about someone having a child with severe SN? Maybe universe has a thing for them too.

Sure, that's absolutely true that bad things happen to good people. But when bad things happen to bad people, people don't feel as much empathy for them.

Anonymous wrote:I have friendships with people who have cheated. I also have a friend who had a relationship with a married man.

I try not to reduce people to their worst decisions. I can acknowledge harm without pretending I’m morally superior or pretending I’ve never made mistakes. That said, if someone consistently shows a lack of integrity, that does affect how close I allow them to be.

Do you actually acknowledge the harm to the people your friends hurt though? Like your friends who cheated -- do you know their spouses? Do their spouses know they were cheated on? Did you hold your friends accountable in any way? Do you think if the people they hurt?

I have friendships with people who have cheated. I also have a friend who had a relationship with a married man.

I try not to reduce people to their worst decisions. I can acknowledge harm without pretending I’m morally superior or pretending I’ve never made mistakes. That said, if someone consistently shows a lack of integrity, that does affect how close I allow them to be.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...who has done terrible things to other people?

It doesn't have to be Epstein-level crimes. Hopefully the number of people that evil are somewhat limited. Doesn't even have to be crimes. Maybe they cheat on their spouse, or are an abusive boss. Maybe they are cruel gossips. Anything that causes harm to other people.

Do you overlook behavior that harms others as long as the person isn't harming you?

Why?

Nope. Evil people hurt people because that's what evil people do. If you stick around, they'll ALWAYS get around to you eventually. I've seen it over and over again, and it's hard to feel sorry for the cronies who eventually become targets.

Nah, humanity isn't this black/white. It's way too easy, and intellectually lazy, to label people "evil". We've all got the capacity for evil, and we've all caused harm.

I disagree that all people have caused harm that can be categorized as "evil" though. Sure, everyone makes mistakes and I'm sure all people have hurt someone without intent before. I don't think all people have deliberately hurt someone else though. And even among people who have there are degrees of harm. I think (hope?) that everyone has a line somewhere and that behavior on the other side of that line would be enough for you to end a friendship. Like presumably (hopefully) you would not maintain a friendship with a murderer or a rapist. But would you maintain a friendship with... an embezzler? A drug dealer?

What if you found out your friend has spent all of HS and college bullying other girls over their weight and appearance? Or that your friend had knowingly spread an STD? What if you found out they routinely berated their kids for being lazy and stupid? Or that they used to take naked photos of their ex without them knowing? That they lied on their resume to get a job? Convinced a declining parent to disinherit a sibling? Was a doctor or therapist who broke confidentiality about their patients?

Where is your line?

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I'm talking specifically people who have done harm, not just people whose views you disagree with (or even find abhorrent).

I'm talking about situations where a person has hurt a person or persons (physically, emotionally, financially), you are aware they did it, they've never expressed remorse or made amends. So like just generally being anti-vax wouldn't fit, but knowingly sending an unvaccinated kid to school during a measles outbreak, resulting in that kid getting measles, would. Not saying being anti vax is good, but for purposes of these questions I'm thinking about concrete harm, not just thoughts or ideas.

I'm specifically interested in how people are willing to turn a blind eye when harm is done to others.

There's still way too much "why" left out of your question.

Sent the cootie kid to go in and spread measles deliberately, or sent their kid to school because they work two hourly jobs to make ends meet and don't have leave? One of those could be considered "evil", but I'd grant the other some grace.

Stealing is wrong, but stealing to keep your family fed isn't going to get you kicked out of my social circle, nor am I going to demand some elaborate show of atonement or remorse. Stealing because you wanted new shoes or a fancy purse is a different story.

I'm aware of at least some of the crap I myself have pulled in my 4+ decades on this planet. I'm far from perfect, so I don't demand perfection from my friends. But if, after conversation and a meeting of minds, there's no reconciliation or explanation for the behavior, yeah, I'm gonna distance myself.

Anonymous wrote:I don't work in the same field as my friends so I wouldn't know anything about them as bosses... and I assume they might not tell me if they cheat (some people never tell anybody, I'm assuming). So I don't know if I would know those things about most of my friends.

What if you found out. Would you continue being friends or would you cut them loose, even though they'd never done anything to hurt you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...who has done terrible things to other people?

It doesn't have to be Epstein-level crimes. Hopefully the number of people that evil are somewhat limited. Doesn't even have to be crimes. Maybe they cheat on their spouse, or are an abusive boss. Maybe they are cruel gossips. Anything that causes harm to other people.

Do you overlook behavior that harms others as long as the person isn't harming you?

Why?

Nope. Evil people hurt people because that's what evil people do. If you stick around, they'll ALWAYS get around to you eventually. I've seen it over and over again, and it's hard to feel sorry for the cronies who eventually become targets.

Nah, humanity isn't this black/white. It's way too easy, and intellectually lazy, to label people "evil". We've all got the capacity for evil, and we've all caused harm.

Anonymous wrote:...who has done terrible things to other people?

It doesn't have to be Epstein-level crimes. Hopefully the number of people that evil are somewhat limited. Doesn't even have to be crimes. Maybe they cheat on their spouse, or are an abusive boss. Maybe they are cruel gossips. Anything that causes harm to other people.

Do you overlook behavior that harms others as long as the person isn't harming you?

Why?

No. If that's who they are, why would you?

I don't work in the same field as my friends so I wouldn't know anything about them as bosses... and I assume they might not tell me if they cheat (some people never tell anybody, I'm assuming). So I don't know if I would know those things about most of my friends.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I'm talking specifically people who have done harm, not just people whose views you disagree with (or even find abhorrent).

I'm talking about situations where a person has hurt a person or persons (physically, emotionally, financially), you are aware they did it, they've never expressed remorse or made amends. So like just generally being anti-vax wouldn't fit, but knowingly sending an unvaccinated kid to school during a measles outbreak, resulting in that kid getting measles, would. Not saying being anti vax is good, but for purposes of these questions I'm thinking about concrete harm, not just thoughts or ideas.

I'm specifically interested in how people are willing to turn a blind eye when harm is done to others.

OP again, to clarify further.

I'm not interested in the question of whether you would remain friends with someone whose views offend you, personally, because the harm there is to you. The point of my question is where people draw the line regarding harm to other people. I want to know how you deal with people who have harmed other people, but not you. I want to know when people are (or are not) willing to draw lines on behalf of others.

My DH left me. And looking back it is a relief because he was constantly defending his friendships with vile people- people who had left their families in awful ways, or cheated and done cruel things, or had been shady in their business and academic dealings in order to get ahead. I realized too far in that someone who defends his associations with that behavior out of friendship is not a good and decent person who believes in selfless loyalty but is actually a bad person themselves.

OP here. I'm talking specifically people who have done harm, not just people whose views you disagree with (or even find abhorrent).

I'm talking about situations where a person has hurt a person or persons (physically, emotionally, financially), you are aware they did it, they've never expressed remorse or made amends. So like just generally being anti-vax wouldn't fit, but knowingly sending an unvaccinated kid to school during a measles outbreak, resulting in that kid getting measles, would. Not saying being anti vax is good, but for purposes of these questions I'm thinking about concrete harm, not just thoughts or ideas.

I'm specifically interested in how people are willing to turn a blind eye when harm is done to others.