Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry. Does he do anything for fun?
He likes to watch sports and do fantasy leagues with his college and grad school friends. He does like to go on vacations with us thankfully (that I plan of course) even though he often has to work at times during them.
Anonymous wrote:Can we get insight into what the 'flaws' were? I think the context may be relevant.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here. Yes the teens help, and yes we can afford to outsource. That’s not really the point. I would like him to just be a more active member of our family. He used to be more involved, when the kids were younger and he worked fewer hours (but still a lot.)
And no I don’t pressure him to work this much, we live on significantly less than he makes and I’m fine with that. My income is basically irrelevant - I do it because I like it and it helps keep me sane.
I feel like Jen Anniston in that movie where she screams “I want you to WANT to do the dishes!” except it’s not dishes. It’s more that I want him to WANT to have a more active role in our lives. He’s leaned too much into almost a Don Draper/1950’s mentality and I don’t like it or want it.
Well this is fair. It's not about your income or even, really, about an inequitable work load. It's more about him not seeming to give a damn about the family. The money he brings in is never going to replace that.
If he says that he can't maintain his job *and* show some kind of interest in the family, then the next step is that he'd be expected to find a new job. Which might, in turn, result in less money for the household. I assume you'd be ok with a lower economic status in exchange for him being a full member of the family.
I know that you meant this as a “gotcha,” but I don’t know a woman who doesn’t feel this way.
“Would you rather live in a big house where you are lonely and unloved, or would you rather live in a small house where you and your children feel loved, secure, and protected by your spouse?”
Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry. Does he do anything for fun?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here. Yes the teens help, and yes we can afford to outsource. That’s not really the point. I would like him to just be a more active member of our family. He used to be more involved, when the kids were younger and he worked fewer hours (but still a lot.)
And no I don’t pressure him to work this much, we live on significantly less than he makes and I’m fine with that. My income is basically irrelevant - I do it because I like it and it helps keep me sane.
I feel like Jen Anniston in that movie where she screams “I want you to WANT to do the dishes!” except it’s not dishes. It’s more that I want him to WANT to have a more active role in our lives. He’s leaned too much into almost a Don Draper/1950’s mentality and I don’t like it or want it.
Well this is fair. It's not about your income or even, really, about an inequitable work load. It's more about him not seeming to give a damn about the family. The money he brings in is never going to replace that.
If he says that he can't maintain his job *and* show some kind of interest in the family, then the next step is that he'd be expected to find a new job. Which might, in turn, result in less money for the household. I assume you'd be ok with a lower economic status in exchange for him being a full member of the family.
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Yes the teens help, and yes we can afford to outsource. That’s not really the point. I would like him to just be a more active member of our family. He used to be more involved, when the kids were younger and he worked fewer hours (but still a lot.)
And no I don’t pressure him to work this much, we live on significantly less than he makes and I’m fine with that. My income is basically irrelevant - I do it because I like it and it helps keep me sane.
I feel like Jen Anniston in that movie where she screams “I want you to WANT to do the dishes!” except it’s not dishes. It’s more that I want him to WANT to have a more active role in our lives. He’s leaned too much into almost a Don Draper/1950’s mentality and I don’t like it or want it.
Anonymous wrote:Are you sure he is not having an affair?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here. Yes the teens help, and yes we can afford to outsource. That’s not really the point. I would like him to just be a more active member of our family. He used to be more involved, when the kids were younger and he worked fewer hours (but still a lot.)
And no I don’t pressure him to work this much, we live on significantly less than he makes and I’m fine with that. My income is basically irrelevant - I do it because I like it and it helps keep me sane.
I feel like Jen Anniston in that movie where she screams “I want you to WANT to do the dishes!” except it’s not dishes. It’s more that I want him to WANT to have a more active role in our lives. He’s leaned too much into almost a Don Draper/1950’s mentality and I don’t like it or want it.
Frankly you sound bored and manufacturing problems. It is entirely rational for the person making all of the money to want and expect to do less housework.
He is his own person, and you can't make him want anything. Yes, it would nice if husbands (and wives) all wanted to do the dishes and fold laundry regardless of income, but we live in reality.
I suggest stop being petty and demanding and tell him this part "I'd like for you to have a more active role in our lives". And then ASK HIM what things he would enjoying doing with the family. Movie nights? Ski trips? Camping trips?
It is important to understand that not all feelings are valid.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here. Yes the teens help, and yes we can afford to outsource. That’s not really the point. I would like him to just be a more active member of our family. He used to be more involved, when the kids were younger and he worked fewer hours (but still a lot.)
And no I don’t pressure him to work this much, we live on significantly less than he makes and I’m fine with that. My income is basically irrelevant - I do it because I like it and it helps keep me sane.
I feel like Jen Anniston in that movie where she screams “I want you to WANT to do the dishes!” except it’s not dishes. It’s more that I want him to WANT to have a more active role in our lives. He’s leaned too much into almost a Don Draper/1950’s mentality and I don’t like it or want it.
Frankly you sound bored and manufacturing problems. It is entirely rational for the person making all of the money to want and expect to do less housework.
He is his own person, and you can't make him want anything. Yes, it would nice if husbands (and wives) all wanted to do the dishes and fold laundry regardless of income, but we live in reality.
I suggest stop being petty and demanding and tell him this part "I'd like for you to have a more active role in our lives". And then ASK HIM what things he would enjoying doing with the family. Movie nights? Ski trips? Camping trips?
It is important to understand that not all feelings are valid.
Why is it reasonable that he gets completely check out at home? I would bet my year's salary you're a man who does jack shit in the house and think your paycheck is enough contribution.
Did he not participate in creating a family? Does he not eat the food that's prepared? Does he not live in the house that needs the maintenance and upkeep?
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Yes the teens help, and yes we can afford to outsource. That’s not really the point. I would like him to just be a more active member of our family. He used to be more involved, when the kids were younger and he worked fewer hours (but still a lot.)
And no I don’t pressure him to work this much, we live on significantly less than he makes and I’m fine with that. My income is basically irrelevant - I do it because I like it and it helps keep me sane.
I feel like Jen Anniston in that movie where she screams “I want you to WANT to do the dishes!” except it’s not dishes. It’s more that I want him to WANT to have a more active role in our lives. He’s leaned too much into almost a Don Draper/1950’s mentality and I don’t like it or want it.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why is bringing up income in the context of household responsibilities a dick move?
If she works outside of the home as much as he does but makes way less, that seems like an opportunity for her to do fewer hours working - because the household finances won't take so much of a hit - and reduce her overall workload.
If her lower income is a reflection of fewer hours worked outside the home, then its fair to consider that in terms of equitable overall workload.
That shouldn't be the whole discussion. I can totally see guys blowing off any concerns at all about equitable contributions to the household. (Sounds a lot like OP's husband is doing just that.) But I don't see why relative income is off limits entirely.
Because it is a dick move. I work full time. I make more than my husband, and still do more at home. It never occurred to me to bring money into "division of labor" talks. One, even though he makes less, he is working hard and his job simply doesn't lend itself to working fewer hours. It's always men who feel that simply because they bring in a paycheck, they can do little or nothing at home.
I don't get this. Maintaining a household requires a certain combined level of effort. Part of that effort is doing the sort of work that generates the money necessary to finance the household. It's arbitrary to ignore that slice of the effort when discussing overall division of labor.
So, in your mind, even though we both work 40+ hours outside of home, one of us gets a pass on a whole lot of stuff because one of us brings in a bit more? So let's say I'm a nurse working on my feet all day long and bring in 70K (I'm not a nurse and don't really know how much they make, just using it as an example) and he is a lawyer working in house making 300K, he gets to come home and prop his feet up while I have to take on a second job at home becasue my profession is not as lucrative. I can guarantee that a nurse is working 10 times harder than an in-house lawyer.
It's not a matter of getting a pass. But if one person works 50 hours to make $300k and the other person works 50 hours to make $50k and the couple is overwhelmed between the effort required to work both jobs and take care of the house/family, it would be rational to dial back the hours spent on the $50k job and devote those hours to household effort. Cut back expenditures to account for the lost income.
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Yes the teens help, and yes we can afford to outsource. That’s not really the point. I would like him to just be a more active member of our family. He used to be more involved, when the kids were younger and he worked fewer hours (but still a lot.)
And no I don’t pressure him to work this much, we live on significantly less than he makes and I’m fine with that. My income is basically irrelevant - I do it because I like it and it helps keep me sane.
I feel like Jen Anniston in that movie where she screams “I want you to WANT to do the dishes!” except it’s not dishes. It’s more that I want him to WANT to have a more active role in our lives. He’s leaned too much into almost a Don Draper/1950’s mentality and I don’t like it or want it.