International cheating was also an issue for the IB exams in recent years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m feeling so bad for Hong Kong. It used to be a modern ethical country.

It was a British colony.
And the British did not allow free democratic rule until just before the handover for virtue signaling.

It used to have all the human rights any modern free society enjoys even with limited democracy. The UK was a much better colonizer than CCP China.

There used to be signs in Hong Kong stating "No dogs and No Chinese allowed".
Yeah, the British were great exemplars of human rights.

Did you just wake up from your coffin?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m feeling so bad for Hong Kong. It used to be a modern ethical country.

It was a British colony.
And the British did not allow free democratic rule until just before the handover for virtue signaling.

It used to have all the human rights any modern free society enjoys even with limited democracy. The UK was a much better colonizer than CCP China.

There used to be signs in Hong Kong stating "No dogs and No Chinese allowed".
Yeah, the British were great exemplars of human rights.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don’t get it—if their universities are better than ours, why are their students so desperate to get into U.S. colleges, even to the point of cheating? That just doesn’t add up.

And ironically 2024-2025 we see surge in international students in US colleges even with Trump administration.

1. Very difficult to get into top universities in China.

2. Cachet/prestige from studying abroad is a significant advantage in gaining employment in China.

3. Many want opportunity to emigrate to US and college is an initial step in that process.

Okay, but if their economy is supposedly doing better than the U.S., at least according to the media, I don’t get why they’d want to come here at all—given the current economic mess and high unemployment and underemployment for American NGs. Same with Indian students. Why?

Our salaries are much higher for the same difficulty of job. They can send some home to family and the purchasing power is pretty good. Also some Asian employers have longer workdays and more than 5 days per week as a basic schedule.

Also, having known people from these countries, many of them appreciate our freedom of mobility (even car-centric culture), our relatively nice and large residences (apartments to houses), our less grindy and more socially mobile schools, some freedom from political fear, clean air in our cities, less openly-visible poverty, etc. Also the US still has cutting edge technology and businesses of great interest (Silicon Valley, etc.).

I work with many STEM immigrants who have become citizens or have other legal arrangements. None of them would prefer to leave the US to go "home". They are fairly assimilated since most came during grad school. Their children are born here and usually don't have firm ties to their parents' birth countries except for visiting relatives on vacation.

Okay, but this is where things feel contradictory to me. On one hand, the media on both sides talks about how strong China has become—and to be fair, some of that is true. The infrastructure and industrial growth there are clearly outpacing many developed countries, and at the same time, U.S. companies are still rushing to outsource jobs overseas.

But if China is really doing that well, why do so many people still try to come here for anchor babies, or send their kids to the U.S. for education? And meanwhile on DCUM, people constantly virtue-signal about how merit-based U.S. college admissions supposedly are compared to ours.

So what’s the real story here? If China is so strong and the system works so well, why is there still such a strong pull toward the U.S.? Is the media exaggerating, or are people’s actions telling a different truth?

They want to come here for many reasons.

For the middle to upper classes (which is this post's cohort of kids):
Some are about lifestyle - 5 day workweek (plus summer fridays!) instead of the 9am-9pm/6 days a week "996" culture, no pesky parents or grandparents constantly pushing you to get married and have kids. People are more civil to each other in western countries. The suburban single family house is a luxury and status item in China.

Some is simply culturally ingrained - the US has pushed the American Dream abroad pretty hard for decades. This has been an active agenda behind the US State Department's centers abroad for a long time. So it's considered prestigious and fortunate to go to the US, same thing for college although there is increasing discernment about WHICH college. Their dramas and TV shows often mention going abroad as a goal so that's also how the message is sustained.

For the above, I think about how SATC elevated NYC as a destination for a certain age group. Prior to that, NYC was a gritty and gross dump to a wide swath of Americans up until the mid-1990s. Media presentation has a strong pull everywhere.

For the lower classes:
Economic opportunities.

Anonymous wrote:I saw saw some Chinese guy’s reel about how Chinese kids who can’t get into China’s top schools easily get into American top schools.

Buddy, is it because they cheat and copy other people’s work? Is that how they study here too? I’m weary of sending my kid to a college with a large Asian presence.

Are you weary of it or wary of it? I mean, if you're weary of it you can just stop doing it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m feeling so bad for Hong Kong. It used to be a modern ethical country.

It was a British colony.
And the British did not allow free democratic rule until just before the handover for virtue signaling.

It used to have all the human rights any modern free society enjoys even with limited democracy. The UK was a much better colonizer than CCP China.

Anonymous wrote:I’m feeling so bad for Hong Kong. It used to be a modern ethical country.

It was a British colony.
And the British did not allow free democratic rule until just before the handover for virtue signaling.

Anonymous wrote:I saw saw some Chinese guy’s reel about how Chinese kids who can’t get into China’s top schools easily get into American top schools.

Buddy, is it because they cheat and copy other people’s work? Is that how they study here too? I’m weary of sending my kid to a college with a large Asian presence.

You are right to be weary for many reasons

Universities turn a blind eye to full pay international students.

They or their children want to go to Harvard/MIT and become rich Americans.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don’t get it—if their universities are better than ours, why are their students so desperate to get into U.S. colleges, even to the point of cheating? That just doesn’t add up.

And ironically 2024-2025 we see surge in international students in US colleges even with Trump administration.

1. Very difficult to get into top universities in China.

2. Cachet/prestige from studying abroad is a significant advantage in gaining employment in China.

3. Many want opportunity to emigrate to US and college is an initial step in that process.

Okay, but if their economy is supposedly doing better than the U.S., at least according to the media, I don’t get why they’d want to come here at all—given the current economic mess and high unemployment and underemployment for American NGs. Same with Indian students. Why?

Our salaries are much higher for the same difficulty of job. They can send some home to family and the purchasing power is pretty good. Also some Asian employers have longer workdays and more than 5 days per week as a basic schedule.

Also, having known people from these countries, many of them appreciate our freedom of mobility (even car-centric culture), our relatively nice and large residences (apartments to houses), our less grindy and more socially mobile schools, some freedom from political fear, clean air in our cities, less openly-visible poverty, etc. Also the US still has cutting edge technology and businesses of great interest (Silicon Valley, etc.).

I work with many STEM immigrants who have become citizens or have other legal arrangements. None of them would prefer to leave the US to go "home". They are fairly assimilated since most came during grad school. Their children are born here and usually don't have firm ties to their parents' birth countries except for visiting relatives on vacation.

Okay, but this is where things feel contradictory to me. On one hand, the media on both sides talks about how strong China has become—and to be fair, some of that is true. The infrastructure and industrial growth there are clearly outpacing many developed countries, and at the same time, U.S. companies are still rushing to outsource jobs overseas.

But if China is really doing that well, why do so many people still try to come here for anchor babies, or send their kids to the U.S. for education? And meanwhile on DCUM, people constantly virtue-signal about how merit-based U.S. college admissions supposedly are compared to ours.

So what’s the real story here? If China is so strong and the system works so well, why is there still such a strong pull toward the U.S.? Is the media exaggerating, or are people’s actions telling a different truth?

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know of American student going to china to study? Is that even a thing?

Yes, but for geopolitical reasons, my university was pressured to discontinue a longstanding joint program. Spying and intelligence collection are being leveraged as reasons for these academic relationships to be ended.

The more fundamental reason is that few non-Chinese-heritage Americans study Chinese. It's an extremely complex language. Therefore there are few students who are at the right level AND want to study at the college level in Chinese. And want to be in China for more than a study trip.

China is a very interesting country but it is not easy to visit like a European country such as France.

Google AI says:

China hosts a significant number of international students, with recent figures showing numbers around 440,000 in 2021, though some sources suggest fluctuations, with figures like 492,000 in 2018 and potentially lower numbers post-pandemic, primarily from Asia and Africa, studying in its universities. While China is a large destination, the exact current figure varies by reporting year and source, with numbers tending to be around the half-million mark historically, with a strong push for growth in recent years.

Key Figures & Trends:
2021: Over 440,000 international students, a 35% increase from 2020.
2018: 492,185 foreign students from 196 countries.

Origins: Most students come from neighboring Asian countries and various African nations, supported by government scholarships.

Major Cities: Beijing, Shanghai, Jiangsu, and Zhejiang attract the most international students.

The number of American students in China has fallen sharply from over 11,000 in 2019 to roughly 800-1,000 in 2024-2025, a decline driven by strained U.S.-China relations, COVID-19 policies, and increased political restrictions, though efforts are underway to increase numbers again. The peak was around 15,000 in 2011, with a low of 211 during the pandemic, but numbers have rebounded slightly to under 1,000, notes The Washington Post.

Key Figures & Trends:
Pre-Pandemic (2019): Over 11,000 students.

Pandemic Low (2021-22): Around 211 students.

Recent Rebound (2024-2025): Approximately 800-1,000 students.

Reasons for the Decline:
Strained Relations: Tensions between the U.S. and China have impacted educational exchanges.

COVID-19 Policies: Strict lockdowns made travel difficult, causing many to leave or choose other destinations like Taiwan.

Increased Scrutiny: A revised counterespionage law and heightened political climate make China less appealing.

Efforts to Increase Numbers:
China has initiated programs, like the "50,000 Students" initiative, aiming to bring more Americans to study in China, notes the American Chamber of Commerce in China.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don’t get it—if their universities are better than ours, why are their students so desperate to get into U.S. colleges, even to the point of cheating? That just doesn’t add up.

And ironically 2024-2025 we see surge in international students in US colleges even with Trump administration.

1. Very difficult to get into top universities in China.

2. Cachet/prestige from studying abroad is a significant advantage in gaining employment in China.

3. Many want opportunity to emigrate to US and college is an initial step in that process.

Okay, but if their economy is supposedly doing better than the U.S., at least according to the media, I don’t get why they’d want to come here at all—given the current economic mess and high unemployment and underemployment for American NGs. Same with Indian students. Why?

Our salaries are much higher for the same difficulty of job. They can send some home to family and the purchasing power is pretty good. Also some Asian employers have longer workdays and more than 5 days per week as a basic schedule.

Also, having known people from these countries, many of them appreciate our freedom of mobility (even car-centric culture), our relatively nice and large residences (apartments to houses), our less grindy and more socially mobile schools, some freedom from political fear, clean air in our cities, less openly-visible poverty, etc. Also the US still has cutting edge technology and businesses of great interest (Silicon Valley, etc.).

I work with many STEM immigrants who have become citizens or have other legal arrangements. None of them would prefer to leave the US to go "home". They are fairly assimilated since most came during grad school. Their children are born here and usually don't have firm ties to their parents' birth countries except for visiting relatives on vacation.

Anonymous wrote:As sad as this may be, it pales in comparison to the rampant cheating happening everyday in the classroom.

It's frustrating. Even if my kids get into a good school here, I worry they won’t learn much if they’re surrounded by people who just don’t care about learning. That’s why I’m looking at schools in the UK. I’m really hoping this kind of corruption hasn’t made its way there yet.

As sad as this may be, it pales in comparison to the rampant cheating happening everyday in the classroom.