Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doping? Really? The nvsl guidelines say that you must compete with your assigned sex at birth. So by your logic a swimmer who is transitioning is no longer eligible to swim for the nvsl?

It’s summer swim. Just let kids be kids and swim.

I don’t disagree that it’s summer swim and a rec league should be treated differently than USA swimming and should lean into being more inclusive. But now that NVSL has introduced rules around this issue they should be applied consistently and logically. The point of the rules is to ensure competitive fairness for biological females, and it is illogical to suggest that biological females who are taking what are essentially performance enhancing hormones in order to transition to being male should be swimming against females. None of this prevents people from swimming either, it’s meant to define who can compete in what category.

What if they were born female, spent 4-5 years on testosterone, and then were forced to discontinue their gender affirming care due to the Trump Administration?

This is all so insane for an issue that affects so few swimmers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doping? Really? The nvsl guidelines say that you must compete with your assigned sex at birth. So by your logic a swimmer who is transitioning is no longer eligible to swim for the nvsl?

It’s summer swim. Just let kids be kids and swim.

I don’t disagree that it’s summer swim and a rec league should be treated differently than USA swimming and should lean into being more inclusive. But now that NVSL has introduced rules around this issue they should be applied consistently and logically. The point of the rules is to ensure competitive fairness for biological females, and it is illogical to suggest that biological females who are taking what are essentially performance enhancing hormones in order to transition to being male should be swimming against females. None of this prevents people from swimming either, it’s meant to define who can compete in what category.

What if they were born female, spent 4-5 years on testosterone, and then were forced to discontinue their gender affirming care due to the Trump Administration?

This is all so insane for an issue that affects so few swimmers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doping? Really? The nvsl guidelines say that you must compete with your assigned sex at birth. So by your logic a swimmer who is transitioning is no longer eligible to swim for the nvsl?

It’s summer swim. Just let kids be kids and swim.

I don’t disagree that it’s summer swim and a rec league should be treated differently than USA swimming and should lean into being more inclusive. But now that NVSL has introduced rules around this issue they should be applied consistently and logically. The point of the rules is to ensure competitive fairness for biological females, and it is illogical to suggest that biological females who are taking what are essentially performance enhancing hormones in order to transition to being male should be swimming against females. None of this prevents people from swimming either, it’s meant to define who can compete in what category.

Anonymous wrote:Doping? Really? The nvsl guidelines say that you must compete with your assigned sex at birth. So by your logic a swimmer who is transitioning is no longer eligible to swim for the nvsl?

It’s summer swim. Just let kids be kids and swim.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can’t wait for a 17 year old who was born female but has been taking hormones to aid in transition to male to be forced to swim with the girls. [all this “we must protect girls!”…maybe think it through all the way and remember what youth sports are supposed to be about…]

I don’t know if this applies to rec league like NVSL, but if you are a female transitioning to be male and taking hormones to aid in that transition you are not going to be eligible to compete against females anymore either. That is essentially considered doping. This really isn’t that deep. To compete against females you have to be a biological female and can’t be doping, whether it’s because you’re transitioning to be male or just trying to get a competitive edge. And yes, female athletes deserve that protection for their competitive space.

Anonymous wrote:Can’t wait for a 17 year old who was born female but has been taking hormones to aid in transition to male to be forced to swim with the girls. [all this “we must protect girls!”…maybe think it through all the way and remember what youth sports are supposed to be about…]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad NVSL came out with a clear rule, and I agree the concerns about 'records' and 'inspections' are specious. Several years ago when the trans stuff first started happening people could legitimately think that there was this tiny tiny group of kids who felt this way from birth and could be 'cured' by being allowed to transition to the other gender. And honestly no one is terribly concerned about a child who transitions before puberty. Go to the present- we have the tragedy of sudden onset gender issues in adolescence, and kids who have gone through puberty all of a sudden presenting as the opposite gender. You don't need to police it or inspect, you just can't let John who has swum with the boys from age 6 on, suddenly decide at 15 he is a girl and switch to the girls.

Hear that, team reps. If you knowingly ignore and someone complains, your team would be known as cheaters. Talk about shame and humiliation to your pool.

I don't think that is what the prior poster was saying.

I am a team rep and we talk. As a whole we do not want a biological boy swimming as a girl. The prior unwritten rule was bullshit. Which I won't even go into what it was before, so this is a welcome improvement. I have friends with trans kids, but for the most part no one thinks a biological boy should be swimming against a girl post puberty.

The poster was saying we know if a kid was always a boy on the team and then suddenly wants to be a girl. If that kid wants to now swim as a girl, the answer is no. There is no need to look at Vital records or be all dramatic about it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, the last thing we need are more deranged parents inspecting little girls in bathing suits. Particularly the more robust little girls who may already be feeling insecure in their little bodies because they’re tall, strong, hairy, or otherwise not like the other little girls.

Let’s just remember when we’re gender policing that these are kids with feelings, ok? One nasty word from you might turn them off sport forever. If you care about women’s sports like you claim you are you will realize the tragedy of that. So mind yourselves, please.

I can't believe I long for the typical NVSL thread posts about physically threatening pep rallies, over-bearing team reps, and free loading swim parents, etc.

Good luck! Everyone is now obsessed with making sure that 17 year boy who has never made All-Stars can't register as girl this year, squeak into the All-Star field based on scratches, and then go on living their life as as a boy while still wearing the All-Star patch.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, the last thing we need are more deranged parents inspecting little girls in bathing suits. Particularly the more robust little girls who may already be feeling insecure in their little bodies because they’re tall, strong, hairy, or otherwise not like the other little girls.

Let’s just remember when we’re gender policing that these are kids with feelings, ok? One nasty word from you might turn them off sport forever. If you care about women’s sports like you claim you are you will realize the tragedy of that. So mind yourselves, please.

I can't believe I long for the typical NVSL thread posts about physically threatening pep rallies, over-bearing team reps, and free loading swim parents, etc.

Good luck! Everyone is now obsessed with making sure that 17 year boy who has never made All-Stars can't register as girl this year, squeak into the All-Star field based on scratches, and then go on living their life as as a boy while still wearing the All-Star patch.

I believe it's the parent who would show up wearing the patch to work....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, the last thing we need are more deranged parents inspecting little girls in bathing suits. Particularly the more robust little girls who may already be feeling insecure in their little bodies because they’re tall, strong, hairy, or otherwise not like the other little girls.

Let’s just remember when we’re gender policing that these are kids with feelings, ok? One nasty word from you might turn them off sport forever. If you care about women’s sports like you claim you are you will realize the tragedy of that. So mind yourselves, please.

I can't believe I long for the typical NVSL thread posts about physically threatening pep rallies, over-bearing team reps, and free loading swim parents, etc.

Good luck! Everyone is now obsessed with making sure that 17 year boy who has never made All-Stars can't register as girl this year, squeak into the All-Star field based on scratches, and then go on living their life as as a boy while still wearing the All-Star patch.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, the last thing we need are more deranged parents inspecting little girls in bathing suits. Particularly the more robust little girls who may already be feeling insecure in their little bodies because they’re tall, strong, hairy, or otherwise not like the other little girls.

Let’s just remember when we’re gender policing that these are kids with feelings, ok? One nasty word from you might turn them off sport forever. If you care about women’s sports like you claim you are you will realize the tragedy of that. So mind yourselves, please.

I can't believe I long for the typical NVSL thread posts about physically threatening pep rallies, over-bearing team reps, and free loading swim parents, etc.

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, the last thing we need are more deranged parents inspecting little girls in bathing suits. Particularly the more robust little girls who may already be feeling insecure in their little bodies because they’re tall, strong, hairy, or otherwise not like the other little girls.

Let’s just remember when we’re gender policing that these are kids with feelings, ok? One nasty word from you might turn them off sport forever. If you care about women’s sports like you claim you are you will realize the tragedy of that. So mind yourselves, please.