OP, my STBX was probably just like your DS when he was a kid, but slightly less mean and he hid it better. When I think of the conversations I’ve had with my STBexMIL over the years, here are the things that I think would have helped DS:

-chores and family obligations that cannot be escaped because “homework”. You can emphasize academics without it being absolving a kid of any other responsibility

-don’t compliment achievement. Compliment effort and kindness to others.

-force him to do something that doesn’t come easy for him and can’t be cheated. A manual labor job, an activity just for fun, etc

-no special privileges during family time or obligations. Nothing that says his participation in regular life is optional or you consider him above drudgery. So he can’t bring his phone or a book to a family outing or dinner, etc.

I am sure you do nice things for him from car rides to favorite foods for him and his friends

You don't have to
gee, especially the food

How long has he had the bad attitude? Just wondering if it's a new thing or he has always been challenging. Is your spouse in the picture? You need to have a respect conversation this weekend. I am sure you do nice things for him from car rides to favorite foods for him and his friends. Sometimes you need to remind them that when they are mean and rude, it's hard for you to want to continue to do these things. Good luck

National consequences. Without drama, don't have as much togetherness. Expect more independence, meaning don't do as much for him. He's on his own. If someone isn't pleasant, you see them less. That's how adult relationships work. Again, without drama or making pronouncements ahead of time. Just ease into a lesser role that prioritizes more of you wants/needs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why can’t you take the phone away? Honest question.

Because that's unrelated to him being a jerk and would actually harm his ability to collaborate and communicate. It's not at all germane to the problem. He's not wasting time on screens or abusing social media privileges.

Thank you for confirming that DC is a boy. That matters. Not sure why you went out of your way in your OP to hide that.

Get his father involved. What does he have to say about this behavior?

If kid needs to stay up all hours to get high grades they wil not do well on standard aptitude tests. Also if get into reach university will not be getting all As.

Anonymous wrote:Sir/Ma’am shut this behavior and those antics down.
Both parents. Every single time.

This !!
I won’t tolerate it. My kid knows that and has known that forever.

Anonymous wrote:i would start to create boundaries for yourself
there are other consequences besides taking a phone
no driving/car
not paying for a phone


let your son pursue his goals. it’s great he has them. he may be learning painful lessons next year if he is not being truthful about who he is grades etc. if he won’t listen then let him try and maybe fail

next year will be worse w college applications and then soiling the nest so perhaps look for ways to hold your boundaries

This. I would pull back on funding unnecessary things he wants. If he wants spending money, he can get a job. He’ll learn how to treat people then.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK I'm going to come out and say this: lay off the kid. He's more ambitious, has more grit and higher sights than you. These are all POSITIVE character traits. Somehow this rubs you wrong. Unless he does something illegal, I'd not worry. Remember, you have Congress members lying on their applications to get faculty positions. Let him try to the schools he wants and SUPPORT him in this. Don't stand in the way. Once acceptances roll in, worry about the rest. I'm saying this as someone who has a PhD and had to listen to my mom going "you don't need this" over and over for over a decade. I needed this. I got it (and did all the steps to get there). Ruined my relationship with mom for good as she was always so unsupportive. She never saw me for me.

This advice boils down to: let him be mean to people because he is smart/high achieving.

In my house, that’s not allowed. Kindness is a requirement. You don’t get out of it by excelling in another area because of the dangerous message that sends people (especially men).

You’re a bad parent if you don’t understand that this is a level of control that is too far.

Not allowing active meanness is one thing; requiring kindness is obnoxious.

Anonymous wrote:Well, accusing someone of being a POS is subjective. The OP clearly doesn't want her son (fairly certain it's a son) to apply to more competitive and higher ranked colleges, going as far as threatening to "disavow financial help". Who is the jerk here? Imagine yourself being a sophomore, trying to get to the best college you can, and mom is disavowing financial help and thinking you aim too high? They never pushed for top colleges? Why, if the child is capable and wants to? "Turns out, they could be a good candidate" -- the kid is a junior, and the mom is surprised to find out her kid can get into top colleges?

OP here, and I actually do want the best for them. I just want them to apply without lying, sleeping 3 hours when they could reasonably sleep 5.5 or 6.5 hours, and having the attitute that comes with that kind of deprivation (nasty, sour, mean, setting them up for mistakes that don't need to happen that they have too much hubris to realize are actually risky to their goals). The phone, as PPs have said, is absolutely not an issue. It's complicated. I would never disvow financial help. I continue to pay for every little thing they ask for related to competitions and trips, etc... I just FEEL this way.

I'm not really interested in advice from people who don't understand this very specific type of situation. Thanks to those who responded that do. I realize it's rare.

Sorry OP, junior year was difficult for us as well. At least your child isn’t rebelling by doing drugs and other similar behavior.

The only advice I have for you is to call out unacceptable behavior. Identify specific behavior that is unacceptable and let them know that consequences in the real world are less forgiving. Remember they are learning how to deal with emotion and challenges that many adults never master. I can’t count how many times I had to say, “you cannot treat people this way” remind them they are better than the behavior you object to. It will not have an immediate impact but over time hopefully it will resonate.

When emotions are not high I found asking my DC what alternative options he thought might be effective to those I objected to. While not perfect, there are times he is certainly better at identifying and modifying behavior.

It helps to remember that I’m not perfect either.

Ultimately he will probably not get in to a really high prestige school. Most likely his grades are inflated and he doesn’t sound like the kind of kid who is going to get glowing letters of recommendation or have lots of rich and deep activities embedded in his resume since he doesn’t seem to care about others. Lots of kids think cheating to an absurd GPA is the ticket but it’s the whole package and the schools he likely wants to get into will see that behind his grades there isn’t much positive.

Anonymous wrote:Jesus. The idea that people think this kid sounds okay sacrificing everything in the name of achievement is part of why I don't like DC

Especially since OP is probably delulu about how “high achieving” her kid. Her nasty kid might have high grades but it’s unlikely he’s got the rest of the package because people aren’t eager to help teenaged jerks succeed.

Jesus. The idea that people think this kid sounds okay sacrificing everything in the name of achievement is part of why I don't like DC

Anonymous wrote:OK I'm going to come out and say this: lay off the kid. He's more ambitious, has more grit and higher sights than you. These are all POSITIVE character traits. Somehow this rubs you wrong. Unless he does something illegal, I'd not worry. Remember, you have Congress members lying on their applications to get faculty positions. Let him try to the schools he wants and SUPPORT him in this. Don't stand in the way. Once acceptances roll in, worry about the rest. I'm saying this as someone who has a PhD and had to listen to my mom going "you don't need this" over and over for over a decade. I needed this. I got it (and did all the steps to get there). Ruined my relationship with mom for good as she was always so unsupportive. She never saw me for me.

This advice boils down to: let him be mean to people because he is smart/high achieving.

In my house, that’s not allowed. Kindness is a requirement. You don’t get out of it by excelling in another area because of the dangerous message that sends people (especially men).