Anonymous wrote:How much misogyny have you internalized that you’re blaming your mother for your father’s conduct? Where is your responsibility as your child’s parent? You, the parent, your father’s child, are the person responsible for saying “dad, that’s not how we talk to our family members”. You let your son down, your spouse down, and you’re blaming your mother.

So true!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can you invite your mother to stay at your house every now and then? Or stay in a hotel near their home and inveigle your mother to come out and do things? I would be very blunt with your father.

OP here. She won't travel without him. She won't even sit in a Starbucks alone. She would never leave him out. Again, she defends him and even treats him as if he's her kid (hence why I need her help reining in his behavior, he won't accept any criticism of his behavior from me). If they weren't my parents, I'd avoid them, but alas, it is what it is. I have a sibling who is in her 40s and still relies on them extensively support, so she hears no evil, sees no evil.

Yikes

My Mil is this way now. She’s always been very difficult but now can just be mean and nasty even to the kids and in front of the kids. She lives on west coast so it’s a huge trip and no one has fun including her. We offered to visit without kids (teens who can stay with friends) but she said she doesn’t want to see me or DJ (her son!) just the kids.

You could FaceTime visit

Anonymous wrote:You’re all so damned nasty, have no empathy, and are ageist AF. I can’t wait until you get older and your families dump you as quickly as you’re all so willing to dump yours.

The grandparents here are old. They’re cranky. Lots of old people become cranky. So you just put up with it the way you put up with cranky babies. The kids here are old enough that the parents can explain what’s up.

It’s called stretching yourself for people you love and who were good to you.

Oh come on, plenty of old people don't get cranky. And old people are not the same as babies (though I agree with treating them like babies if that's how they are acting).

Anonymous wrote:You’re all so damned nasty, have no empathy, and are ageist AF. I can’t wait until you get older and your families dump you as quickly as you’re all so willing to dump yours.

The grandparents here are old. They’re cranky. Lots of old people become cranky. So you just put up with it the way you put up with cranky babies. The kids here are old enough that the parents can explain what’s up.

It’s called stretching yourself for people you love and who were good to you.

I'd say this post is pretty clear about the situation to anyone who reads it.

Anonymous wrote:Your kids are old enough to be told grandpa is old and crazy and not to take him to seriously also fine for you just to visit on your own.

All of this. You are not going to change grandpa and your kids are not that young. My relatives said really crazy and offensive things and it was part of the visits we laugh about now as adults.

My FIL passed away and some of the adult grandkids and his kids said some of his phrases lovingly at his funeral and shared laughs, saying he would be looking down and still yelling at them.

Do they have this type of relationship or are your kids bothered by it. You can decide if you keep up the visits or you don’t. There is no right or wrong here with what you decide.

Anonymous wrote:I would go by myself, if at all, and leave the family behind. There's no "teaching moment" from a family patriarch abusing younger family members. Also correct that nothing's going to change, if it did, it would have long time ago. Get comfortable with white lies. Just say you don't have money to travel to them. If they've never paid, it's unlikely they'll offer.

+1, zero chance I am forcing my children to endure verbal/emotional abuse as a “teaching moment”. Come on, OP.

Your kids are old enough to be told grandpa is old and crazy and not to take him to seriously also fine for you just to visit on your own.

I have a very similar situation to Op but it is my in laws and they live in the next town. My DC (only child, almost 18) has not seen them in about 2-3 years due to their outright verbal and emotional abusive treatment them and my DH (and me until I stopped visits). Plus they are always yelling at each other (their pure hatred of each other as spouses is very clear). MIL threatens divorce, FIL threatens self harm in retaliation.

Recently (maybe it was Holiday nostalgia) DC asked if I thought they would see them again before they died. Mentioned maybe wanting to see them but also not wanting to visit due to previous abuse and likelihood of chaos even in a simple restaurant dinner outing. I told DC that I would support whatever they wanted- do I facilitate a visit, or let it be? DH is the same- in theory wants to see his parents but knows it opens up a whole host of issues.

I would go by myself, if at all, and leave the family behind. There's no "teaching moment" from a family patriarch abusing younger family members. Also correct that nothing's going to change, if it did, it would have long time ago. Get comfortable with white lies. Just say you don't have money to travel to them. If they've never paid, it's unlikely they'll offer.

China should be change.

My solution was to visit only once a year with family, stay in hotel, partially so parents lives weren't as disrupted and they were less irritable and we got a break from all the criticism.

Nothing is going to China with your parents OP, and there is nothing your mom can do about your dad, if you've already tried to get him to stop and failed.

I would talk to your kids and explain to them that granddad is emotionally abusive but Grandma enjoys seeing them. Teach them how to leave the situation when he starts picking at them and how to identify the abuse. Make it a learning experience and stay only a short time.

sorry OP. just commiserating as i just got back from visiting abusive father with my kids at his assisted living. i harbor some guilt for not seeing him more often or even placing him in AL but every time i see him, i remember all the physical/verbal abuse i endured growing up. he's 88 and still yelling at me for no reason whereas he's sweet as pie to the nursing staff.

it's really hard and he begs me to visit more often bc he's lonely and bored but then can't control his behavior and curses at me if i go to the bathroom (where did i go? he needs a pen right now!!). my poor mother put up with him for over 50 years until she passed away 2 years ago. he's enraged that she left him alone so he no longer has anyone to cater to him.

if i were you, i'd definitely limit visits to 1-2x/year, stay in a hotel, and just get together for meals or activity (walk, museum, movie?). i will do the same out of duty, wishing the whole time my mom were still here instead of him.