Anonymous wrote:It's more than just in literature or movies. From the time I was a teenager, relatives or even random friends of my parents were always asking if I had a boyfriend. By the time I was in law school it was whether I was dating someone I was going to marry. It's one million tiny little messages that say no matter how smart you are, no matter what you're actually interested in, no matter what your career, your community is judging you based on your mate.

And always will because that's literally how you exist. What's not clicking?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m curious, OP, would it be fine with you if your daughter never married? I feel like that’s the natural endpoint of decentering men. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that, just wondering if people are mostly ok with the prospect of just remaining single.

Why are your only two options

-Have men front and center in all aspects of womens lives
or
-Be single

?

Do you give men the same option?

Men are optional. Women don't need them anymore for anything. Want a family? Have your own baby. Want money have your own career. Men are outdated and unessesary.

I love my husband. Just because I don't "center men" doesn't mean I need to stay single or become a lesbian.

Lol you're the only person who brought up being a lesbian. 😂

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m curious, OP, would it be fine with you if your daughter never married? I feel like that’s the natural endpoint of decentering men. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that, just wondering if people are mostly ok with the prospect of just remaining single.

OP here. I will absolutely be fine with that. One of the reason I asked this was because my niece chose not go to law school because her boyfriend threatened to break up with her if she moved across the country to attend law school. And he is not even a fiance crazy....Of course some will argue it's a "her" problem. But is it really a "her only" problem? In my opinion, of course I could be totally wrong, more women will, for example, opt to say with their bf over going to law school in that scenario. How many men do you think will make a similar sacrifice? Most men first instinct will be that another woman will be waiting for them when they are done.

That is so unfortunate. Your niece would be so much better off being educated as a lawyer and not tied down with an insecure manchild.

How is he an insecure manchild? He doesn't want to be in a long distance relationship. That is a choice that many men and women make. Especially when they are young and college aged. There are also many women who break up with boyfriends who move away - does it make them all insecure womenchilds?

Your own daughter might consider breaking up with her boyfriend in college if he says oh hey, I am moving to the otherside of the country for a few years. See ya. Would you really call her names and think badly of her because she decides to end that relationship?

I would say that both OPS niece and your hypothetical daughter's boyfriend should still leave and go to law school, even if they know this means the end of their relationship. And I hold nothing against OPs niece's boyfriend or your daughter if they choose to end the relationship because they don't want a long term long distance relationship when they are young.

He's an insecure manchild because someone actually worth marrying and spending your life with would support your dreams. He won't support her in a career that potentially makes more money than him. He won't support her in schooling where she isn't under his thumb. She literally gave up a career because a boy threatened her. That's pathetic and I'd actually be so disappointed if that was my daughter.

Women don't need to kneel so men can feel tall.

Oh please, this is absolute garbage. You made all of that up. You don't know them at all. Your sexist bias is pretty strong here.

So you would expect your daughter to stay with a guy who moves across the country for school. That she can't break up with him - she has to stay in a long term long distance realtionship indefinitely because otherwise she isn't supporting his dreams and his career? And that is she did break up with him, you would name call her and see her as a horrible person and partner for ending the relationship? Your poor daughter.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m curious, OP, would it be fine with you if your daughter never married? I feel like that’s the natural endpoint of decentering men. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that, just wondering if people are mostly ok with the prospect of just remaining single.

Why are your only two options

-Have men front and center in all aspects of womens lives
or
-Be single

?

Do you give men the same option?

I didn’t say there were only two options. What I meant is that it’s a fair assumption that growing decentering men rhetoric will lead more women to choose being single rather than compromising on non essential values that women a generation ago would have compromised on.

I am not making a value judgment, because I certainly don’t care what other women or men do, but I do think it’s interesting.

You said that's the natural end point of decentering men. So it's either center men or be single.

Who are you to say these are non-essential values for women? Apparently these are incredibly important to some of us.

It sounds like you're trying to move women backwards, yikes. The good old days weren't actually that great for women, but you don't seem to listen to the grandmothers and great grandmothers who advised us NOT to deal with the sh*t they put up with.

You are really dim. I’m a married working mom with a full time job in a challenging field that I love. I am fulfilling my Arab grandmothers’ dreams of work and financial success.

I don’t care about moving women back, they can of course do whatever they want. I just think this topic is interesting.

Unnecessary

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m curious, OP, would it be fine with you if your daughter never married? I feel like that’s the natural endpoint of decentering men. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that, just wondering if people are mostly ok with the prospect of just remaining single.

Why are your only two options

-Have men front and center in all aspects of womens lives
or
-Be single

?

Do you give men the same option?

Men are optional. Women don't need them anymore for anything. Want a family? Have your own baby. Want money have your own career. Men are outdated and unessesary.

I love my husband. Just because I don't "center men" doesn't mean I need to stay single or become a lesbian.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m curious, OP, would it be fine with you if your daughter never married? I feel like that’s the natural endpoint of decentering men. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that, just wondering if people are mostly ok with the prospect of just remaining single.

Why are your only two options

-Have men front and center in all aspects of womens lives
or
-Be single

?

Do you give men the same option?

Men are optional. Women don't need them anymore for anything. Want a family? Have your own baby. Want money have your own career. Men are outdated and unessesary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m curious, OP, would it be fine with you if your daughter never married? I feel like that’s the natural endpoint of decentering men. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that, just wondering if people are mostly ok with the prospect of just remaining single.

OP here. I will absolutely be fine with that. One of the reason I asked this was because my niece chose not go to law school because her boyfriend threatened to break up with her if she moved across the country to attend law school. And he is not even a fiance crazy....Of course some will argue it's a "her" problem. But is it really a "her only" problem? In my opinion, of course I could be totally wrong, more women will, for example, opt to say with their bf over going to law school in that scenario. How many men do you think will make a similar sacrifice? Most men first instinct will be that another woman will be waiting for them when they are done.

That is so unfortunate. Your niece would be so much better off being educated as a lawyer and not tied down with an insecure manchild.

How is he an insecure manchild? He doesn't want to be in a long distance relationship. That is a choice that many men and women make. Especially when they are young and college aged. There are also many women who break up with boyfriends who move away - does it make them all insecure womenchilds?

Your own daughter might consider breaking up with her boyfriend in college if he says oh hey, I am moving to the otherside of the country for a few years. See ya. Would you really call her names and think badly of her because she decides to end that relationship?

I would say that both OPS niece and your hypothetical daughter's boyfriend should still leave and go to law school, even if they know this means the end of their relationship. And I hold nothing against OPs niece's boyfriend or your daughter if they choose to end the relationship because they don't want a long term long distance relationship when they are young.

He's an insecure manchild because someone actually worth marrying and spending your life with would support your dreams. He won't support her in a career that potentially makes more money than him. He won't support her in schooling where she isn't under his thumb. She literally gave up a career because a boy threatened her. That's pathetic and I'd actually be so disappointed if that was my daughter.

Women don't need to kneel so men can feel tall.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m curious, OP, would it be fine with you if your daughter never married? I feel like that’s the natural endpoint of decentering men. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that, just wondering if people are mostly ok with the prospect of just remaining single.

Why are your only two options

-Have men front and center in all aspects of womens lives
or
-Be single

?

Do you give men the same option?

I didn’t say there were only two options. What I meant is that it’s a fair assumption that growing decentering men rhetoric will lead more women to choose being single rather than compromising on non essential values that women a generation ago would have compromised on.

I am not making a value judgment, because I certainly don’t care what other women or men do, but I do think it’s interesting.

You said that's the natural end point of decentering men. So it's either center men or be single.

Who are you to say these are non-essential values for women? Apparently these are incredibly important to some of us.

It sounds like you're trying to move women backwards, yikes. The good old days weren't actually that great for women, but you don't seem to listen to the grandmothers and great grandmothers who advised us NOT to deal with the sh*t they put up with.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m curious, OP, would it be fine with you if your daughter never married? I feel like that’s the natural endpoint of decentering men. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that, just wondering if people are mostly ok with the prospect of just remaining single.

OP here. I will absolutely be fine with that. One of the reason I asked this was because my niece chose not go to law school because her boyfriend threatened to break up with her if she moved across the country to attend law school. And he is not even a fiance crazy....Of course some will argue it's a "her" problem. But is it really a "her only" problem? In my opinion, of course I could be totally wrong, more women will, for example, opt to say with their bf over going to law school in that scenario. How many men do you think will make a similar sacrifice? Most men first instinct will be that another woman will be waiting for them when they are done.

That is so unfortunate. Your niece would be so much better off being educated as a lawyer and not tied down with an insecure manchild.

How is he an insecure manchild? He doesn't want to be in a long distance relationship. That is a choice that many men and women make. Especially when they are young and college aged. There are also many women who break up with boyfriends who move away - does it make them all insecure womenchilds?

Your own daughter might consider breaking up with her boyfriend in college if he says oh hey, I am moving to the otherside of the country for a few years. See ya. Would you really call her names and think badly of her because she decides to end that relationship?

I would say that both OPS niece and your hypothetical daughter's boyfriend should still leave and go to law school, even if they know this means the end of their relationship. And I hold nothing against OPs niece's boyfriend or your daughter if they choose to end the relationship because they don't want a long term long distance relationship when they are young.

This. I spent a DECADE in biglaw and it just was not all that. The idea that my life would be better if I centered my biglaw clients more and my husband and kids less is really laughable.

I don’t know what job would make that make sense. I am sure there are some. But not any I ever had.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m curious, OP, would it be fine with you if your daughter never married? I feel like that’s the natural endpoint of decentering men. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that, just wondering if people are mostly ok with the prospect of just remaining single.

Why are your only two options

-Have men front and center in all aspects of womens lives
or
-Be single

?

Do you give men the same option?

I didn’t say there were only two options. What I meant is that it’s a fair assumption that growing decentering men rhetoric will lead more women to choose being single rather than compromising on non essential values that women a generation ago would have compromised on.

I am not making a value judgment, because I certainly don’t care what other women or men do, but I do think it’s interesting.

A lot women go to law school, med school and dental school. So I think the days women put men front and center are GONE. If they did, they wouldn't opt for these careers that require long studies.

Anonymous wrote:It's more than just in literature or movies. From the time I was a teenager, relatives or even random friends of my parents were always asking if I had a boyfriend. By the time I was in law school it was whether I was dating someone I was going to marry. It's one million tiny little messages that say no matter how smart you are, no matter what you're actually interested in, no matter what your career, your community is judging you based on your mate.

Everyone grows up with a million messages. Men are told all the time that they need to look out for women, protect women, take care of women, open doors for women, put themselves in danger for women, to deny their own feelings and cater to the woman's feelings etc, etc. This shapes how they will act and the decisions they make, just like your million messages shape you.

Everyone grows up with family messages, societal messages, gender messages, cultural messages, religious messages. At the end of the day, each individual has to make their own choices for themselves. They have to look through the noise and be who they want to be and do what they want to do. Many, many people choose to not follow the messages that their family / society / culture / religion / gender norms told them to be when they were children / adults and to have different values, beliefs, attitudes, and make different decisions.

If you are going to say that women can't be responsible for themselves or any decisions they make as they are only able to be who they were told to be as children, then the same holds true for men - and men can then also only be who they were told to be and can't be responsible or accountable for themselves or their decisions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m curious, OP, would it be fine with you if your daughter never married? I feel like that’s the natural endpoint of decentering men. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that, just wondering if people are mostly ok with the prospect of just remaining single.

OP here. I will absolutely be fine with that. One of the reason I asked this was because my niece chose not go to law school because her boyfriend threatened to break up with her if she moved across the country to attend law school. And he is not even a fiance crazy....Of course some will argue it's a "her" problem. But is it really a "her only" problem? In my opinion, of course I could be totally wrong, more women will, for example, opt to say with their bf over going to law school in that scenario. How many men do you think will make a similar sacrifice? Most men first instinct will be that another woman will be waiting for them when they are done.

That is so unfortunate. Your niece would be so much better off being educated as a lawyer and not tied down with an insecure manchild.