There’s a lot of in between though, not just great vs horrible/absent.
My father was kind to me but I think there was a bit of emotional incest, he is a weak man who was under my mother’s thumb but I can see her side of things too. Learned helplessness, avoidance and honestly incompetence were all there.
I marrried someone who seemed very soft but unlike my father he not only had a backbone but was also pretty stubborn and a bit crazy so we divorced when he started “rebelling” in the pattern I inherited from my parents (I tried to be in charge).
In short I can’t say my dad was bad but he wasn’t great either

Anonymous wrote:Not only do you get the benefit of growing up in a home with a present father who you know loves you and demonstrates to you every day how men should great their spouse and kids, but it greatly increases your odds of finding a husband like this, which will lead to a better marriage, easier parenting, and a happier life.

Meanwhile, those of us who have bad or absent dads (or, jackpot, those of us whose dads were absent but also abusive and terrible when around) have to grow up feeling inadequate and unloveable because of our crap dads, then have no idea who to find or attract men who are better. Then even if we find men who are better, we don't know how to deal with it because we have really low self esteem and are suspicious of people who don't immediately recognize that we are bad people unworthy of love. Even if the find good men and actually figure out that we should marry these men, we then will struggle with those negative feelings from our childhoods throughout our lives, making our marriages less smooth and making parenting more challenging.

If you had a great dad, you should understand that you won at life before you were even born. I think it's one of the single best things that can happen to a person. I hope you understand this and have some empathy for those of us who never had this.

I don't agree. This is just deflecting. When will you take responsibility for your own actions? It's really easy to point fingers at Dad for your shortcomings. You pick the wrong men, you have poor relationships. It's not my fault; it's because I didn't have a good Dad. Can we please move past this victim mindset?

If your Dad is a bad parent, he could just as easily blame his own parents. Then no one would take responsibility for anything.

Anonymous wrote:

The influence of a father figure in a child's future is way, way overblown. I find it very misogynist to discount the role of the mother. A certain number of studies were done a generation ago about the importance of father figures in relation with juvenile criminality in poor households, but as usual people generalize some specific findings in specific studies and try to apply it to all sorts of different contexts.

Yes, having good parents help children become better adults. Shocker. But no, I don't think this warrants a whole thesis on the critical role of a decent male in the house so that girls can find good boyfriends and husbands later in life.

I’m from a liberal area where quite a few of my friends had gay or lesbian parents. All of my friends grew up to be heterosexual and they all married great spouses. I do think that two parents is incredibly important but I don’t think it has to be a dad and a mom. My friend’s lesbian parents had similar roles that my mom and dad had though (like good cop, bad cop one was more lenient and the other stricter.) I think two parents with a huge role in your life is key. I also think a loving marriage shows what a marriage should look like.

Anonymous wrote:Eh. It can have the opposite effect. My dad was amazing, and I ended up dating a string of losers because I assumed all men were as good as him and would do the right thing. Took me a long time to realize most men aren’t as good as dad was and that they don’t change.

+1

THIS. Exactly this. Me too

I had the absolute best dad in the world and did not get a guy like him. My spouse has a lot of issues that really fully emerged in midlife. Now drinks way too much.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The influence of a father figure in a child's future is way, way overblown. I find it very misogynist to discount the role of the mother. A certain number of studies were done a generation ago about the importance of father figures in relation with juvenile criminality in poor households, but as usual people generalize some specific findings in specific studies and try to apply it to all sorts of different contexts.

Yes, having good parents help children become better adults. Shocker. But no, I don't think this warrants a whole thesis on the critical role of a decent male in the house so that girls can find good boyfriends and husbands later in life.

+1

It’s a crapshoot and highly dependent on so many things. A mean or mentally ill parent of any kind can pose challenges. I actually see a LOT of pairings where there is a super nice but somewhat passive dad who gets bullied around by an unhappy or unwell mother. This can cause trouble too.

is this also the reason a few of the women with absent dad also becomes avoidant in relationship? They like men to chase them but get cold feet whenever there is intimacy or vulnerability or conflict involved.

it could be. As a lot of people said, it could either way but trusting someone is always an issue and most importantly trusting themselves that it would work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The influence of a father figure in a child's future is way, way overblown. I find it very misogynist to discount the role of the mother. A certain number of studies were done a generation ago about the importance of father figures in relation with juvenile criminality in poor households, but as usual people generalize some specific findings in specific studies and try to apply it to all sorts of different contexts.

Yes, having good parents help children become better adults. Shocker. But no, I don't think this warrants a whole thesis on the critical role of a decent male in the house so that girls can find good boyfriends and husbands later in life.

+1

It’s a crapshoot and highly dependent on so many things. A mean or mentally ill parent of any kind can pose challenges. I actually see a LOT of pairings where there is a super nice but somewhat passive dad who gets bullied around by an unhappy or unwell mother. This can cause trouble too.

is this also the reason a few of the women with absent dad also becomes avoidant in relationship? They like men to chase them but get cold feet whenever there is intimacy or vulnerability or conflict involved.

Anonymous wrote:Not only do you get the benefit of growing up in a home with a present father who you know loves you and demonstrates to you every day how men should great their spouse and kids, but it greatly increases your odds of finding a husband like this, which will lead to a better marriage, easier parenting, and a happier life.

Meanwhile, those of us who have bad or absent dads (or, jackpot, those of us whose dads were absent but also abusive and terrible when around) have to grow up feeling inadequate and unloveable because of our crap dads, then have no idea who to find or attract men who are better. Then even if we find men who are better, we don't know how to deal with it because we have really low self esteem and are suspicious of people who don't immediately recognize that we are bad people unworthy of love. Even if the find good men and actually figure out that we should marry these men, we then will struggle with those negative feelings from our childhoods throughout our lives, making our marriages less smooth and making parenting more challenging.

If you had a great dad, you should understand that you won at life before you were even born. I think it's one of the single best things that can happen to a person. I hope you understand this and have some empathy for those of us who never had this.

I can't tell you how true this is for me. I am 43F and recently broke up with my fiancé. My dad passed away when I was 2 months old so never saw him, had step-dad who was a little creepy and ended up marrying someone at the age of 17. Marriage was awful but I had two beautiful girls out of this and they are both in college. Divorced my ex-H at 41 and after several dating, met someone incredible who was smart, educated, devoted, kind and also rich and he treated me and my daughters in one of the best ways. I always felt that I was not good enough for him. He was patient and selfless but this negative feeling kept on lingering that he could find someone better than me easily then why he is with me, what am I bringing to the table, etc. This actually led to a lot of anxiety and control from my side and the relationship didn't work out. I used to micro-manage him and it didn't last long after that. We broke up and I am feeling regret which I would carry for a long time.

Anonymous wrote:This thread is eye opening. My dad was a good dad but he has a temper and is often grumpy. In turn, I married a man who has a temper and is often grumpy. The temper and grumpiness bother me and I tolerate it, although our marriage is otherwise great. I just didn’t know that there were men out that were emotionally stable - calm even during a disagreement (until I read DCUM).

That's because you were trained to think that most men are like your dad and you don't have to put up with it. You don't have to put up with a temper or verbal abuse.

Anonymous wrote:I wish I had a better dad but I'm not sure it's as cut-and-dry as these posts make it seem. Because my dad sucked (abusive alcoholic, chronically unemployed and took it out on all of us) I was really content to just not mess with guys at all. I didn't date until law school and was perfectly fine walking away when I saw red (or even orange) flags. My husband is a great guy and provider (not in the millionaire sense but in the hard worker sense), and a hands-on dad. My sister, OTOH, desperately sought male attention and approval ever since we were teenagers and neded up with a series of inappropriate men, a useless (now ex-) husband, and is a single mom. People can react differently to the same stimuli.

That is great that you went to law school. Most women who grew up with alcoholic verbally abusive dads end up as strippers and never go to school. So I wonder why for what motivated you or who pushed you if your dad didn't.

Anonymous wrote:Eh. It can have the opposite effect. My dad was amazing, and I ended up dating a string of losers because I assumed all men were as good as him and would do the right thing. Took me a long time to realize most men aren’t as good as dad was and that they don’t change.

My childhood best friend had this issue (she has a great dad for sure) and she did eventually find a great person to marry although he earns a lower income. But her parents just subsidize them of course.

This thread is eye opening. My dad was a good dad but he has a temper and is often grumpy. In turn, I married a man who has a temper and is often grumpy. The temper and grumpiness bother me and I tolerate it, although our marriage is otherwise great. I just didn’t know that there were men out that were emotionally stable - calm even during a disagreement (until I read DCUM).

It's like that meme where they're like "He's such a good dad" whenever he does anything -- takes the kids to the park, packs their lunch, puts in a load of laundry.

Unfortunately, I'm one of those women who had a malignant narcissist dad (Yes, actually diagnosed) who took great pleasure in his cruelty towards us. He was also an alcoholic. He was almost completely indifferent to us except when he was being psychologically cruel and abusive. I literally do not have a single happy memory of anything as simple as him taking us out for ice cream, going for a walk with us. He used to brag about how he didn't know how old we were or when our birthdays were. He made up a mean nickname for me when I was like five and used it instead of my actual name until the day that he died. He was of course a pillar of the community and outside of the house everyone thought he was awesome.

Which is a roundabout way of saying that I could not for the life of me figure out why anyone would get married ever, and had absolutely no idea what one was supposed to look for in a prospective spouse. My bar was so low. If I could find someone who didn't call me by a mean nickname (my father's nickname for my mother was Fat. That's what he called her.), and who didn't drink until he passed out every night, then to me that seemed like an okay guy. I remember watching my girlfriends in college meet great guys and get engaged to them and feeling like I was so far behind everyone else in life. Now I watch my daughters meet and marry great guys and I realize that it was easier for them because they had a dad that took them swimming and knew how old they were. Simple things.

I think it’s tricky. I had a dad who was definitely not bad but one whom I am not close to and don’t really understand. I really tried to marry someone different and in a lot of ways my husband has a better relationship with my kids than I do with my dad. But he also works A LOT which my dad did too. It has gotten more and more over time too.

Eh. It can have the opposite effect. My dad was amazing, and I ended up dating a string of losers because I assumed all men were as good as him and would do the right thing. Took me a long time to realize most men aren’t as good as dad was and that they don’t change.