Anonymous wrote:While it is true that kids who make it to that level are insanely talented at math, I truly hate the cottage industry it has built around contest math. Kids in early elementary school taking advanced geometry at AOPS… or functions. At this point, if you don’t start those classes at an early age, you really won’t do very well on the AMCs. Someone will point out some outliers and sure, maybe they exist, but not many of them… and the pressure and competition are absurd. At least in the DMV.

Same here, in our area, these are common -
1. Skipping foundational math starting as early as preschool so you can reach college math by high school.
2. If you’re not taking Calculus by 9th grade, classmates often treat you as intellectually inferior.
3. The illusion that a child is a “math genius” because they take college-level math in high school—when in reality, it’s often just the result of heavy acceleration from a very young age.
4. A sense of entitlement to admission into elite institutions based solely on math performance, even when cheating has been reported to the MAA multiple times.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The 'math competition industry' thing reminds me of Spelling Bee. My kid went to national one and lo and behold all the top placers were in like a hidden Spelling Bee Industrial Complex nobody knew about.

Its like the sports industry. We know kids who are training for squash in Egypt and Malaysia. That plus the amount of money one needs to spend on private coaches, traveling to places made us decide not to pursue it. One family in Greenwich built a squash court in their home and had a renowned squash coach as a full time employee (he could not coach other kids).

That's not the same as cheating, though. That's intensive preparation that can be expensive, which some might consider "unfair", but still depends on the talent and effort of the skill of the student.

Indeed, money just tilts the scales. But the rampant cheating on the AMC exams is just that -- cheating. Again, not that important in the big scheme of things but there used to be this lore that MOP qualification meant a ticket to MIT. Certainly not the case any more.

It becomes pretty obvious at MOP

Yes, but this year's MIT admissions has been tough. A lot of MOPpers that my kid knows were deferred (at least half a dozen). Some of these kids made it to the team selection test group, so not the cheater crowd. Apparently, there's a new AO at MIT who looks at the math kid applications, so that may have contributed. I'm sure these kids will be fine wherever they go though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The 'math competition industry' thing reminds me of Spelling Bee. My kid went to national one and lo and behold all the top placers were in like a hidden Spelling Bee Industrial Complex nobody knew about.

Its like the sports industry. We know kids who are training for squash in Egypt and Malaysia. That plus the amount of money one needs to spend on private coaches, traveling to places made us decide not to pursue it. One family in Greenwich built a squash court in their home and had a renowned squash coach as a full time employee (he could not coach other kids).

That's not the same as cheating, though. That's intensive preparation that can be expensive, which some might consider "unfair", but still depends on the talent and effort of the skill of the student.

Indeed, money just tilts the scales. But the rampant cheating on the AMC exams is just that -- cheating. Again, not that important in the big scheme of things but there used to be this lore that MOP qualification meant a ticket to MIT. Certainly not the case any more.

It becomes pretty obvious at MOP

Anonymous wrote:The 'math competition industry' thing reminds me of Spelling Bee. My kid went to national one and lo and behold all the top placers were in like a hidden Spelling Bee Industrial Complex nobody knew about.

Nothing is easy and carefree these days.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While it is true that kids who make it to that level are insanely talented at math, I truly hate the cottage industry it has built around contest math. Kids in early elementary school taking advanced geometry at AOPS… or functions. At this point, if you don’t start those classes at an early age, you really won’t do very well on the AMCs. Someone will point out some outliers and sure, maybe they exist, but not many of them… and the pressure and competition are absurd. At least in the DMV.

The issue (at least after/during Covid) is the rampant cheating. Apparently, this year there were over a 100 kids who had perfect scores in AMC-12! For context, it used to be that scoring 120 was an achievement. Both last year and this, the exams were leaked and were available online on Discord for a fee. This fun activity has now succumbed to the ambitions of parents/kids trying to get a leg up in the college rat race.

Cheating at an optional extra-curricular is pretty pathetic. You can just not do the math contest if it's not your thing.

Known cheaters. They usually wind up at Harvard.

That was one kid. Her cheating became obvious to MIT but nobody else really picked up on it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While it is true that kids who make it to that level are insanely talented at math, I truly hate the cottage industry it has built around contest math. Kids in early elementary school taking advanced geometry at AOPS… or functions. At this point, if you don’t start those classes at an early age, you really won’t do very well on the AMCs. Someone will point out some outliers and sure, maybe they exist, but not many of them… and the pressure and competition are absurd. At least in the DMV.

The issue (at least after/during Covid) is the rampant cheating. Apparently, this year there were over a 100 kids who had perfect scores in AMC-12! For context, it used to be that scoring 120 was an achievement. Both last year and this, the exams were leaked and were available online on Discord for a fee. This fun activity has now succumbed to the ambitions of parents/kids trying to get a leg up in the college rat race.

Cheating at an optional extra-curricular is pretty pathetic. You can just not do the math contest if it's not your thing.

I know a kid that probably cheated their way to AIME.
He spent his entire youth on AMC 8 in elementary with excellent results but by the time AMC 10/12 came around, they were not making the cut for AIME.
Then they started taking the test on make-up days at alternate sites and went from middling scores to top 5%.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NCS has one!
Super impressive and interesting kid.

I heard NCS actually has two.

WOW, impressive for such a small school!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The 'math competition industry' thing reminds me of Spelling Bee. My kid went to national one and lo and behold all the top placers were in like a hidden Spelling Bee Industrial Complex nobody knew about.

Its like the sports industry. We know kids who are training for squash in Egypt and Malaysia. That plus the amount of money one needs to spend on private coaches, traveling to places made us decide not to pursue it. One family in Greenwich built a squash court in their home and had a renowned squash coach as a full time employee (he could not coach other kids).

That's not the same as cheating, though. That's intensive preparation that can be expensive, which some might consider "unfair", but still depends on the talent and effort of the skill of the student.

Indeed, money just tilts the scales. But the rampant cheating on the AMC exams is just that -- cheating. Again, not that important in the big scheme of things but there used to be this lore that MOP qualification meant a ticket to MIT. Certainly not the case any more.

Yeah, it seems like this ruins it for the honest math kids who can no longer use achievement in these contests as a reliable signal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While it is true that kids who make it to that level are insanely talented at math, I truly hate the cottage industry it has built around contest math. Kids in early elementary school taking advanced geometry at AOPS… or functions. At this point, if you don’t start those classes at an early age, you really won’t do very well on the AMCs. Someone will point out some outliers and sure, maybe they exist, but not many of them… and the pressure and competition are absurd. At least in the DMV.

The issue (at least after/during Covid) is the rampant cheating. Apparently, this year there were over a 100 kids who had perfect scores in AMC-12! For context, it used to be that scoring 120 was an achievement. Both last year and this, the exams were leaked and were available online on Discord for a fee. This fun activity has now succumbed to the ambitions of parents/kids trying to get a leg up in the college rat race.

Cheating at an optional extra-curricular is pretty pathetic. You can just not do the math contest if it's not your thing.

My kid immediately lost interest in AMC with this cheating business. They didn’t see the point once the competition questions were leaked.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The 'math competition industry' thing reminds me of Spelling Bee. My kid went to national one and lo and behold all the top placers were in like a hidden Spelling Bee Industrial Complex nobody knew about.

Its like the sports industry. We know kids who are training for squash in Egypt and Malaysia. That plus the amount of money one needs to spend on private coaches, traveling to places made us decide not to pursue it. One family in Greenwich built a squash court in their home and had a renowned squash coach as a full time employee (he could not coach other kids).

That's not the same as cheating, though. That's intensive preparation that can be expensive, which some might consider "unfair", but still depends on the talent and effort of the skill of the student.

Indeed, money just tilts the scales. But the rampant cheating on the AMC exams is just that -- cheating. Again, not that important in the big scheme of things but there used to be this lore that MOP qualification meant a ticket to MIT. Certainly not the case any more.

One can cheat to qualify for AIME but it get progressively hard to cheat. An MOP qualification is still a golden ticket because you cannot cheat to get there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The 'math competition industry' thing reminds me of Spelling Bee. My kid went to national one and lo and behold all the top placers were in like a hidden Spelling Bee Industrial Complex nobody knew about.

Its like the sports industry. We know kids who are training for squash in Egypt and Malaysia. That plus the amount of money one needs to spend on private coaches, traveling to places made us decide not to pursue it. One family in Greenwich built a squash court in their home and had a renowned squash coach as a full time employee (he could not coach other kids).

That's not the same as cheating, though. That's intensive preparation that can be expensive, which some might consider "unfair", but still depends on the talent and effort of the skill of the student.

Indeed, money just tilts the scales. But the rampant cheating on the AMC exams is just that -- cheating. Again, not that important in the big scheme of things but there used to be this lore that MOP qualification meant a ticket to MIT. Certainly not the case any more.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The 'math competition industry' thing reminds me of Spelling Bee. My kid went to national one and lo and behold all the top placers were in like a hidden Spelling Bee Industrial Complex nobody knew about.

Its like the sports industry. We know kids who are training for squash in Egypt and Malaysia. That plus the amount of money one needs to spend on private coaches, traveling to places made us decide not to pursue it. One family in Greenwich built a squash court in their home and had a renowned squash coach as a full time employee (he could not coach other kids).

That's not the same as cheating, though. That's intensive preparation that can be expensive, which some might consider "unfair", but still depends on the talent and effort of the skill of the student.

I was responding to the spelling bee poster. Intense spelling bee prep is also not cheating.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The 'math competition industry' thing reminds me of Spelling Bee. My kid went to national one and lo and behold all the top placers were in like a hidden Spelling Bee Industrial Complex nobody knew about.

Its like the sports industry. We know kids who are training for squash in Egypt and Malaysia. That plus the amount of money one needs to spend on private coaches, traveling to places made us decide not to pursue it. One family in Greenwich built a squash court in their home and had a renowned squash coach as a full time employee (he could not coach other kids).

That's not the same as cheating, though. That's intensive preparation that can be expensive, which some might consider "unfair", but still depends on the talent and effort of the skill of the student.

Anonymous wrote:The 'math competition industry' thing reminds me of Spelling Bee. My kid went to national one and lo and behold all the top placers were in like a hidden Spelling Bee Industrial Complex nobody knew about.

Its like the sports industry. We know kids who are training for squash in Egypt and Malaysia. That plus the amount of money one needs to spend on private coaches, traveling to places made us decide not to pursue it. One family in Greenwich built a squash court in their home and had a renowned squash coach as a full time employee (he could not coach other kids).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NCS has one!
Super impressive and interesting kid.

I heard NCS actually has two.

if so that is incredibly cool because they don't have the science programming of a science magnet but the girls are extremely well prepared.
There is an NCS grad currently at MIT and it think she is thriving.