Yes, you should bring it up with your kid's pediatrician next time you see them (though it is not something I'd seek out an appointment for). Your pediatrician should be giving your kid a screener for depression at teen visits regardless.

OP, I have a similar kid and we are four years into lots of help and intervention and it's still pretty hard - with girls, especially, it can be very, very difficult to unpack what is a cause and what is a symptom of the mental health/behaviors you are seeing.

The other thing I'll mention is that while your daughter may not have started her period yet, she is likely already in the hormonal throes of puberty (starts about a year before menstruation) and experiencing the hormonal fluctuations that will eventually accompany her period. This is another confounding factor in trying to get to root cause for girls in their early teens.

In your shoes, I would spend this time while you are waiting for the evaluation finding a psychiatrist so that you can take action right away once you have information from the evaluation. (There is also the option of doing an anxiety/depression screener with the psychiatrist now and starting meds based on symptoms before the evaluation - I wasn't ready to do this but, in retrospect, it would have been a good idea.) And don't worry about the pills - lots of drugs are available in a liquid or gummy form.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you sure that the all-hours laptop use isn't about something not related to school, like social media or something else? And she's just making it seem like school? If she has ADHD and is getting diverted, she may not even really appreciate how much time she is losing to diversions. I'd keep a better eye on her usage.

She's not on social media. I have gone through long periods where I've monitored her computer usage closely. A little more than half of her time is spent on actual homework - which goes painstakingly slow, or she just gets stuck. She says her brain stops working and feels empty. A lot of it is massively inefficient use of her time - spending exorbitant amounts of time on things that clearly don't matter.

She also takes "brain rot" breaks which often go too long. I've discouraged her from doing this, and take movement breaks instead. I've tried to drag her out for a quick walk. If she must do the brain rot breaks, I suggest setting a timer. But like many of my suggestions and urgings, she just doesn't listen to anything we say.

She is also not on any social media and is completely disinterested in any kind of social apps or even texting her friends.

You need to actually parent. Not "suggest". Take the device away, period. No brain rot. Your "gentle" approach is failing, can't you see that? People are being harsh to you because you seem to very much need a wake up call. You say she is stubborn and uncooperative, I say anxiety disorder and OCD and maybe autistic rigidity. Maybe rejection sensitive dysphoria. Read up on the SPACE protocol-- it's designed to not require any cooperation from the kid, at all.

Speak with the school about homework. That way the reduction in workload can come from the school and she can still feel like she is doing well academically, rather than you telling her it's fine if she gets bad grades.

Anonymous wrote:OP here with another question, that I hope doesn't get lost in the thread.

Is this also something I should bring up with the pediatrician? Is that helpful at all? What are the pros and cons?

Our dd is on medications for both ADHD and anxiety. Our pediatrician prefers to refer these types of cases to doctors with more expertise in these medications. It can be a delicate balance between the two types of meds. We use a psychiatrist for medication management. That’s all she does. Our dd also sees a therapist weekly.

There’s no reason not to bring this up with your pediatrician. Some are comfortable prescribing.

Anonymous wrote:OP here with another question, that I hope doesn't get lost in the thread.

Is this also something I should bring up with the pediatrician? Is that helpful at all? What are the pros and cons?

I really think your issues are beyond the experience of a pediatrician. A child psychiatrist would have better skills. I don’t think it’s a bad place to start with a pediatrician, but you need more help.

Also, get a therapist set up for her. Many are online and therefore more convenient. It may take awhile to build up a relationship between the therapist and child.

OP here with another question, that I hope doesn't get lost in the thread.

Is this also something I should bring up with the pediatrician? Is that helpful at all? What are the pros and cons?

Anonymous wrote:Please consider an SSRI medication for anxiety. Anxiety can cause a lack of appetite in itself. I find it nearly impossible to eat or desire food when I’m anxious. An SSRI can relax the mind and gut enough to desire food. Anxiety can also make for extremely difficult and contribute to homework taking forever. If you treat the anxiety you may just find that it resolves the growth issue and eases the school issues.

Yes, I'm open to trying SSRI's when we get to that point. I don't know how we will actually get her to take the pills though. We have been unsuccessful in getting her to even take a single vitamin pill. She even refused gummies. I think we may have the world's most stubborn child - it is so frustrating on all levels.

find a psychiatrist for SSRI. Not eating could be leading to an eating disorder and heart condition. Could also explain her anger.

OP, I’m sorry you and your DD are going through this.

Check out the SPACE program and book which offer approaches for parents to help kids and teens with anxiety and OCD even if kids aren’t willing to engage in any therapy or take meds themselves.

https://a.co/d/gW3wA3N

Please consider an SSRI medication for anxiety. Anxiety can cause a lack of appetite in itself. I find it nearly impossible to eat or desire food when I’m anxious. An SSRI can relax the mind and gut enough to desire food. Anxiety can also make for extremely difficult and contribute to homework taking forever. If you treat the anxiety you may just find that it resolves the growth issue and eases the school issues.

OP - Our DD has been supporting her 9th grade daughter with anxiety and depression for the last couple of years. The key was finding a local therapist who could work with her, She is on medication by her pediatrician. Eating has also come up as she is very thin to start with. Signs of depression can be
sleep disturbance, not being able to keep up with work. You may find that you and DH need some professional guidance on how to support her.

Anonymous wrote:Are you sure that the all-hours laptop use isn't about something not related to school, like social media or something else? And she's just making it seem like school? If she has ADHD and is getting diverted, she may not even really appreciate how much time she is losing to diversions. I'd keep a better eye on her usage.

She's not on social media. I have gone through long periods where I've monitored her computer usage closely. A little more than half of her time is spent on actual homework - which goes painstakingly slow, or she just gets stuck. She says her brain stops working and feels empty. A lot of it is massively inefficient use of her time - spending exorbitant amounts of time on things that clearly don't matter.

She also takes "brain rot" breaks which often go too long. I've discouraged her from doing this, and take movement breaks instead. I've tried to drag her out for a quick walk. If she must do the brain rot breaks, I suggest setting a timer. But like many of my suggestions and urgings, she just doesn't listen to anything we say.

She is also not on any social media and is completely disinterested in any kind of social apps or even texting her friends.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is she on any medication?

No. Hesitant to do so for many reasons. Worries it will suppress her appetite even more. She doesn’t experience hunger as it is and has fallen off the growth curve.

She also may have a heart condition that would be exacerbated by any stimulants.

She’s also still very young and hasn’t hit puberty yet, so I’m wary of putting anything in her system before she even hits her key growth stage.

I am confused by this because while those are valid reasons for not giving her stimulants, stimulants aren’t what treats anxiety disorders. Anxiety meds sometimes cause increased appetite and weight gain, but weight loss isn’t a concern.

Can you get a definitive answer on the heart disease? That seems like a priority?

Yes, we'll have to get her evaluated by a cardiologist to confirm. It's not a serious thing - I have it as well, but it does have implications as to what kind of medication you can take, and whether she can participate in high level competitive sports. I have just been trying to keep from overwhelming her because she absolutely hates doctors, hospitals, and gets really upset by every medical visit.

And I'm open to the SSRI's for anxiety. She exhibits adhd symptoms as well so I was speaking to that.

They’re not necessarily as effective, but there are non stimulant medications for ADHD. Knowledge is power. Have her evaluated for ADHD. If she doesn’t have it, great, but if she does, there are steps you can take to help her. It takes a long time to get appointments for evaluations and then then time to build executive skills. Don’t delay.

And definitely start anxiety meds ASAP.

Yes, we've already scheduled the private evaluation and requested the school evaluation. Our plan is to wait for the evaluations and results to figure out our next steps.

Are you sure that the all-hours laptop use isn't about something not related to school, like social media or something else? And she's just making it seem like school? If she has ADHD and is getting diverted, she may not even really appreciate how much time she is losing to diversions. I'd keep a better eye on her usage.

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think you are thinking this is a school problem (spending too much time on homework so she doesn’t get enough sleep, etc) and so your interventions have been school focused (we don’t care about grades, stop doing homework at 9pm). But the more you share the more it seems like you have a child experiencing a mental health crisis. We can’t know what kind, but that it what it is. I know she hates doctors and being diagnosed, but just as you’d take her to the ER for a broken leg no matter how much she insisted she was fine, you need to take her to a psychiatrist.

You are a good and loving mom. You need some new tools in your toolbox now, that’s all.

That's my concern as well - I think this can quickly spiral into something much more serious. And I do think this is going to be a long term issue with her that we will have to navigate for the long run. I worry that it will get much, much worse once she hits puberty.

We are reaching out to a private service provider to get her evaluated (which will include assessments for anxiety and depression as well), as well as through the school. I think once we have that information, we can figure out next steps.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I disagree with chores being mandatory. One of the things we have done with my son is to eliminate additional responsibilities so as to reduce the stress of not having enough time to get everything done. Also we make family dinners optional. (And before someone brings up OP’s DD’s eating issues, my son was FTT and followed every 6 weeks by doctors because his weight dropped to the 0.03rd percentile). We also medicated despite a cardiac condition with care being coordinated by both a psychiatrist and a cardiologist.

I provided feedback on the other thread so I won’t repeat it here. But the more OP writes, the more I think her anxiety and her vision of what her family should look like interferes with her parenting the child she has. For example, you don’t avoid medication until after you have exhausted avenues for effective and safe use. And if removing chores might provide the extra time needed for schoolwork and redid her anxiety, to don’t keep forcing chores because yo think everyone should do chores. You treat your child as the individual she is with the needs she has.

We have not been enforcing the chores with her. That's my point. Pretty much everything else has fallen off the radar for her except for homework. Chores, friends, and even things that she used to enjoy - like her hobbies, going outside, hiking, and watching family movies. She'll say she doesn't have time for any of it.

Also - our top priority (way before chores) is her getting the sleep and food that she needs.

Try behavioral activation - a short walk, an ice cream cone, something she loves to get her a glimpse of joy. This will help break the anxiety/depression/overwhelm cycle.

I've tried. I can't pull her away from her homework. It's absolutely a compulsion. I do think we need to address this from ALL the different angles and that there is no magical thing we can do to fix the issue.