Anonymous wrote:We met and married later in life (me late 30s, him about 50). Thirteen years later, we are divorcing. We have one child, in elementary school. We want to do this without lawyers. There are no disagreements about dividing property, but he is afraid I'm going to take him to the cleaners, which I don't intend to do. Still, I am not sure what is a fair division of our money. He doesn't think I'm entitled to any of his retirement funds, since he had already saved a lot of it (probably most) before we met. He is mid-60s, self-employed, has variable income (not much lately), and no inheritance coming. I am 50, stopped working 18 months ago to care for family, and do expect some inheritance eventually (not f$#%-you money, but maybe around $2M).

Here is what we have:

$670K non-retirement funds between us ($40K mine, $400K his, $230K in a joint account)
About $1.5M retirement funds between us ($285K mine, $1.2M his)

The money conversation is already contentious, because of his fear of losing what he worked for before we met, but he told me to "tell him what I want" as a starting point. I don't even know where to begin.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you've gotten some good math here, but I do agree that a consult with a lawyer might be good to give you a realistic idea of what the law would say.

So then you have a better idea, and you can go to him with a range of options. Here's what the law says, but what if we did X, or shifted from X to Y, or balanced things this way or that way?

I'd also think through very carefully what you expect to need. Depending on your state, college costs may be on or off the table (in terms of child suport). Given expected inheritance, are you willing to forego some of his retirement for maybe a lump sum put into college costs? Given his age, and you not working, how were those costs going to be covered?

It may be given his anxiety around retirement, that you could lay out scenarios that protect his retirement but give you other things of equal weight. Given his age, he must be concerned about being forced to work longer. His retirement is not large and there are teenage costs looming - college for one but also maybe a car, or even the travel to visit college options, higher expenses for high school, etc.

What about the house or other marital property?

Do not, under any circumstances, make any life decisions based on an "expected inheritance"! That inheritance can very quickly get eaten up in long-term care. It is just straight-up dumb to live your life based on a contingency you don't control.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, your marriage is not considered a long term marriage, so you won't be entitled to any spousal support, especially since you could easily return to work.

Isn't it 10 years in most places?

Anonymous wrote:I think you've gotten some good math here, but I do agree that a consult with a lawyer might be good to give you a realistic idea of what the law would say.

So then you have a better idea, and you can go to him with a range of options. Here's what the law says, but what if we did X, or shifted from X to Y, or balanced things this way or that way?

I'd also think through very carefully what you expect to need. Depending on your state, college costs may be on or off the table (in terms of child suport). Given expected inheritance, are you willing to forego some of his retirement for maybe a lump sum put into college costs? Given his age, and you not working, how were those costs going to be covered?

It may be given his anxiety around retirement, that you could lay out scenarios that protect his retirement but give you other things of equal weight. Given his age, he must be concerned about being forced to work longer. His retirement is not large and there are teenage costs looming - college for one but also maybe a car, or even the travel to visit college options, higher expenses for high school, etc.

What about the house or other marital property?

Anonymous wrote:Also, your marriage is not considered a long term marriage, so you won't be entitled to any spousal support, especially since you could easily return to work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound like a decent person. He is old and will probably have some health problems. He will need that retirement money to live. I would leave retirement and split the other money in half. Then just split the kid costs.

You are relatively still young and will date again. Sounds like you are from a well off family. Just divorce amicably. No drama and no fighting about money will be good for your child. S/he will likely have to care for the elderly father one day.

Yeah, because the dating market is just bustling for 50 y/os. She's not far from retirement herself and should look out for herself.

Everybody needs to look out for themselves in a divorce. Don't be stupid. Understand the law and get what is yours, and then get a job, because you are both going to be in the poor house after this divorce.

I think this is so wrong. Too many bitter divorced people on this board. IRL I know a lot of people who acted decently towards their spouses in a divorce especially in a scenario like this where one is significantly older and closer to retirement.

Anonymous wrote:Obviously you need a lawyer to advise you on what you’re entitled to and what you reasonably might get if this went to trial. Start out negotiating higher than you’d be likely to get and don’t go substantially lower than what your attorney is very confident you would get.

As a lay person, it seems to me like you should get half the jointly owned marital assets, child support according to your state’s child support calculator, and short term alimony until you can get back on your feet financially. I don’t know if his retirement savings prior to your marriage is a marital asset, but at the very least, you should each walk away from the marriage with 50% of the amount by which his and your retirement accounts increased during the marriage.

Anonymous wrote:I would honor the prenup basically to be a decent human being.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Half his retirement fund, half the joint account, plus alimony since you're not working and child support for your child. Did he not think he was going to split retirement with you when you got married? Without a pre-nup, you should assume he intended for you to have half of any money he came in with.

3/4 of his retirement account is pre-marriage so that isn’t even negotiable legally

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound like a decent person. He is old and will probably have some health problems. He will need that retirement money to live. I would leave retirement and split the other money in half. Then just split the kid costs.

You are relatively still young and will date again. Sounds like you are from a well off family. Just divorce amicably. No drama and no fighting about money will be good for your child. S/he will likely have to care for the elderly father one day.

Yeah, because the dating market is just bustling for 50 y/os. She's not far from retirement herself and should look out for herself.

Everybody needs to look out for themselves in a divorce. Don't be stupid. Understand the law and get what is yours, and then get a job, because you are both going to be in the poor house after this divorce.