Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CNN:

“She graduated from a Connecticut High School with Honors, But She Cannot Read”

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2025/02/27/us/connecticut-aleysha-ortiz-illiterate-lawsuit-cec

What about the Math or Physics competition winners? What about sports competitions? The bottom does not represent all

It isn’t “the bottom” it’s a large majority. Only 35% of 12th graders meet or exceed grade level reading proficiency. Only 22% of 12th graders are at or above grade level math proficiency. These are the lowest scores to date. If you think this doesn’t indicate a big problem with both how kids are parented and how they are educated in schools, I don’t know what to tell you. But yes, it is true, American youth are getting dumber and dumber.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CNN:

“She graduated from a Connecticut High School with Honors, But She Cannot Read”

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2025/02/27/us/connecticut-aleysha-ortiz-illiterate-lawsuit-cec

What about the Math or Physics competition winners? What about sports competitions? The bottom does not represent all

Indeed. If you look at this year's IMO (Math Olympiad) v/s questions even from 10 years ago -- most of the top kids have no trouble solving the latter. In fact, some of the IMO questions in recent years have been so hard that even Terry Tao and a bunch of college professors had to "group solve" questions and it took them a couple of hours or more but every member of the US team solved them in the time allotted. So the top echelon is astonishingly proficient.

So specific- not hard. Academics solve certain questions in certain Fields- they aren’t generalists. You don’t go to a guy in abstract algebra to learn about time series

Do people really say only immigrants are smart, OP, or all immigrants are smart? I'll say it's a big country.

There are a lot of dumb youth in our country, and a lot of those ARE immigrants and the children of immigrants.

And then there are a lot extremely smart youth, both long time Americans, and immigrants and children of recent immigrants.

I think there are definitely problems with how our K-12 are set up when in competition with rest of the world.

However, it's unfair perhaps to compare our entire Youth in this country to just the elite in other countries. Because that is what a lot of these comparisons actually do.

Most countries allow an exit valve into the labor market or into trade schools at grade 10, or 9, or earlier, and many countries do not even offer access to High School and higher education for the poor or non-elite, no matter their potential. As an example; there are millions of kids never seeing the inside of a school in India - so if you compare to India where the US is recruiting all those skilled positions you mentioned, you are comparing all of our youth to only their elite and wealthy youth.

Here in the US, you see everyone all the way trough the end of 12th. So if 90% of grads in a poor Baltimore City HS can't read well, that's really not surprising, they wouldn't be in school in most countries of the world; they wouldn't be part of this comparison.

Anonymous wrote:Once again, I started this thread to push back against the propaganda that tries to shame or generalize Americans as being dumb. The intent to gaslight people like that is truly malicious.

Do you even understand what propaganda is? Must be your superb education and intelligence.

Once again, I started this thread to push back against the propaganda that tries to shame or generalize Americans as being dumb. The intent to gaslight people like that is truly malicious.

The question is not "do we have extremely bright kids who can achieve at a very high level?" Because of course we do and no one can dispute that. The question is, "why are so many kids below average and not achieving at the most basic level, when even a decade ago that was not the case?"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Response to COVID proved we have done a serious disservice the USA citizens in the field of science. It’s not just the youth. So many people just don’t have the knowledge to understand basic scientific facts.
It’s time we fixed that.

I agree with this, but I disagree with those who spread a false narrative that generalizes everyone — that’s simply not true. Instead of calling our people dumb or incompetent, why not focus on providing real solutions? What’s wrong with recognizing genuine merit? Providing good education and recognizing there are authentically competitive, smart young people are not in conflict.

When 50% of the students are not performing, we need to recognize that we have failed them. I'm never in favor of calling kids dumb. That's is counterproductive and it doesn't achieve anything. However, they are NOT performing at the level they should be. That's our failure, not theirs. Our kids would be competitive and perform just as well if we demanded it of them.

Or maybe you should look to see whether we are teaching them the right things. Why does everyone need to be taught calculus?

Why do you keep harping on Calculus? That's not even a graduation requirement in public schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The National Assessment of Educational Progress ("The Nation's Report Card") found that nearly half of high school seniors are testing below a basic level in both subjects, with reading scores hitting a historic low since testing began in 1992.

Have you compared the same clusters to the bottom of the rest of the world?

If you compare the top students globally, I’m fairly confident that the best students in the U.S. can easily outperform those from other countries. First, top U.S. students tend to be exceptionally skilled at multitasking, unlike many top students abroad who focus solely on academics. We also have top students who are Olympiad medalists and others who begin their entrepreneurial journeys at a very young age.

You just can’t oversimplify things by saying that young people are “dumb.” That’s such an irresponsible and generalized statement — it completely overlooks the talent, creativity, and drive that so many young people demonstrate every day.

Are these like your feelings or did you actually look at the data?

Yes, there are tons of reference you can look into, IQ (mind you, look only the top percentile, not all), PISA, or even the SAT score from top to the bottom of each schools... it is not hard

Actually, it is hard. I was asking about this statement specifically "I’m fairly confident that the best students in the U.S. can easily outperform those from other countries."

Can you provide what data you looked at and what countries you compared to come up with that conclusion?

Should we look into any research papers that go into realization? Should we look into GDP per capita at the top percentile? Should we look into the patents, the recent innovations or YC funding results?

These are a little distorted. First, the US is a very large country. Sheer statistics guarantee that in a country of 300M+ there will be ~100K individuals who have the talent and drive. Throw in the efficient allocation of capital that US enjoys (deride Wall Street and the VC system all you want, but this is one thing they are really good at), and it is a recipe for success.

Even the Deep Seek guys actually studied and worked in the US and essentially implemented an established idea.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The National Assessment of Educational Progress ("The Nation's Report Card") found that nearly half of high school seniors are testing below a basic level in both subjects, with reading scores hitting a historic low since testing began in 1992.

Have you compared the same clusters to the bottom of the rest of the world?

If you compare the top students globally, I’m fairly confident that the best students in the U.S. can easily outperform those from other countries. First, top U.S. students tend to be exceptionally skilled at multitasking, unlike many top students abroad who focus solely on academics. We also have top students who are Olympiad medalists and others who begin their entrepreneurial journeys at a very young age.

You just can’t oversimplify things by saying that young people are “dumb.” That’s such an irresponsible and generalized statement — it completely overlooks the talent, creativity, and drive that so many young people demonstrate every day.

Are these like your feelings or did you actually look at the data?

Yes, there are tons of reference you can look into, IQ (mind you, look only the top percentile, not all), PISA, or even the SAT score from top to the bottom of each schools... it is not hard

Actually, it is hard. I was asking about this statement specifically "I’m fairly confident that the best students in the U.S. can easily outperform those from other countries."

Can you provide what data you looked at and what countries you compared to come up with that conclusion?

Should we look into any research papers that go into realization? Should we look into GDP per capita at the top percentile? Should we look into the patents, the recent innovations or YC funding results?

So you haven't actually looked at any of it. Also, you do realize that US is one of the richest and most developed countries in the world. We should not be this behind in educating our kids. Sorry to burst your exceptionalism bubble.

Anonymous wrote:Just because kids are 'educated' and graduate with good grades/testing, does not guarantee intelligence. For the most part, i believe kids today are less smart. They know how to perform for the rote AP curriculum and know how to prep for standardized testing that is far easier today. Despite all the '21st century critical thinking skills' verbiage, kids today are less able to read and critically think and write. K-12 curriculum has been hijacked by the far left/right and imposes bias in selected readings and questions. Chat gpt use is pervasive. For both summarizing readings, writing and even for solving advanced math. Social media exacerbates the issue bc these poorly educated kids are more vulnerable to misinformation. I say this as a mom with ivy kids. Kids today may look and sound impressive, but the intellect is a bit smoke and mirrors when you dive beneath the surface.

What we need are people who can figure out how to use AI efficiently.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Response to COVID proved we have done a serious disservice the USA citizens in the field of science. It’s not just the youth. So many people just don’t have the knowledge to understand basic scientific facts.
It’s time we fixed that.

I agree with this, but I disagree with those who spread a false narrative that generalizes everyone — that’s simply not true. Instead of calling our people dumb or incompetent, why not focus on providing real solutions? What’s wrong with recognizing genuine merit? Providing good education and recognizing there are authentically competitive, smart young people are not in conflict.

When 50% of the students are not performing, we need to recognize that we have failed them. I'm never in favor of calling kids dumb. That's is counterproductive and it doesn't achieve anything. However, they are NOT performing at the level they should be. That's our failure, not theirs. Our kids would be competitive and perform just as well if we demanded it of them.

Or maybe you should look to see whether we are teaching them the right things. Why does everyone need to be taught calculus?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CNN:

“She graduated from a Connecticut High School with Honors, But She Cannot Read”

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2025/02/27/us/connecticut-aleysha-ortiz-illiterate-lawsuit-cec

What about the Math or Physics competition winners? What about sports competitions? The bottom does not represent all

Indeed. If you look at this year's IMO (Math Olympiad) v/s questions even from 10 years ago -- most of the top kids have no trouble solving the latter. In fact, some of the IMO questions in recent years have been so hard that even Terry Tao and a bunch of college professors had to "group solve" questions and it took them a couple of hours or more but every member of the US team solved them in the time allotted. So the top echelon is astonishingly proficient.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The National Assessment of Educational Progress ("The Nation's Report Card") found that nearly half of high school seniors are testing below a basic level in both subjects, with reading scores hitting a historic low since testing began in 1992.

Have you compared the same clusters to the bottom of the rest of the world?

If you compare the top students globally, I’m fairly confident that the best students in the U.S. can easily outperform those from other countries. First, top U.S. students tend to be exceptionally skilled at multitasking, unlike many top students abroad who focus solely on academics. We also have top students who are Olympiad medalists and others who begin their entrepreneurial journeys at a very young age.

You just can’t oversimplify things by saying that young people are “dumb.” That’s such an irresponsible and generalized statement — it completely overlooks the talent, creativity, and drive that so many young people demonstrate every day.

Are these like your feelings or did you actually look at the data?

Yes, there are tons of reference you can look into, IQ (mind you, look only the top percentile, not all), PISA, or even the SAT score from top to the bottom of each schools... it is not hard

Actually, it is hard. I was asking about this statement specifically "I’m fairly confident that the best students in the U.S. can easily outperform those from other countries."

Can you provide what data you looked at and what countries you compared to come up with that conclusion?

Should we look into any research papers that go into realization? Should we look into GDP per capita at the top percentile? Should we look into the patents, the recent innovations or YC funding results?

Anonymous wrote:Not all American youth are uneducated or incapable. Recent posts and social media narratives paint a this picture — suggesting that America’s future is doomed and that only immigrants can fill skilled jobs. This is simply not true.

Despite the shortcomings of the K–12 education system, many intelligent, hardworking, and talented young Americans continue to excel across a wide range of fields — including the children of immigrants.

Please stop spreading the false narrative that Americans are “dumb.” The challenges posed by technology (games or social media obsessions) and modern society exist everywhere, not just in the United States.

Other countries of different algorithm that is regulated by their government.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard to believe this has to be spelled out, but the fact that some kids are poorly educated does not mean that all kids are poorly educated.

That is a major “whataboutism.”

As recently as 2009 (and possibly later), DC had an adult illiteracy problem: 36% of adult residents of D.C. were unable to read.

That is an illiteracy rate worse than most third-world countries. It’s really irrelevant that D.C. is home to our government, the Obamas, some of the most elite PRIVATE schools, Georgetown, etc.

Since its creation in 1980, the U.S. spent billions on the federal “Department of Education.”

And yet, educational outcomes are far worse today, and falling.

I know, I know... it is bash the Feds hour here. But DoEd mostly administers student loans and Pell grants (and compile statistics). The actual curriculum design is more local. Not having gone to grade school here, I am shocked that even subjects like AP classes do not have a standard nationwide curriculum.

If you read the UCSD report that came out recently, the problem started for entering freshmen in 2020. So before Covid. One has to look elsewhere, like NCLB.