Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a form of perspective, whatever expectations might be the case at Colby and Hamilton also might be the case at schools such as Haverford, Notre Dame, Georgetown and Colgate.

I am sure all schools accept kids without calculus but I would be surprised if schools like Notre Dame and Georgetown are accepting kids without calculus from schools where multivariable and BC Calc are offered (and I think the entire DMV area offers BC Calc.)

The intended point was that Colby, for example, which reports an 8% acceptance rate, will select students using similar academic criteria to those of Notre Dame and Georgetown, which report similar (but higher) acceptance rates and similar student profiles.

I am not in the numbers but Colby is a much easier admit at my kids’ DC private. Kids need much higher stats at Georgetown or ND than Colby.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a form of perspective, whatever expectations might be the case at Colby and Hamilton also might be the case at schools such as Haverford, Notre Dame, Georgetown and Colgate.

I am sure all schools accept kids without calculus but I would be surprised if schools like Notre Dame and Georgetown are accepting kids without calculus from schools where multivariable and BC Calc are offered (and I think the entire DMV area offers BC Calc.)

The intended point was that Colby, for example, which reports an 8% acceptance rate, will select students using similar academic criteria to those of Notre Dame and Georgetown, which report similar (but higher) acceptance rates and similar student profiles.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, pp here and I misremembered. What Wisconsin says is “Courses that will not fulfill this requirement include statistics.” When my kid was applying, he was an intended humanities major who wanted to jump off the math train and went back and forth about what math to take senior year.

For him, the choice was between Calc and Stats so he took Calc bc of that language on the website. So I remembered it as needed Calc (but I was wrong). Sorry to worry anyone!

Wisconsin changed their language last year! They used to flat out say that they expected calc if offered. You remembered correctly.

Nope.
The old page (through 2023) said "We would highly recommend taking math your senior year and advancing through pre-calculus or calculus, if available"

https://web.archive.org/web/20230629193455/https://admissions.wisc.edu/can-i-get-in-to-uw-madison/


https://web.archive.org/web/20220621154517/https://admissions.wisc.edu/can-i-get-in-to-uw-madison/

The recent change was to drop the encouragement for even precalculus.

Expected = highly encouraged if available. Potato, poTAHto. 🙄

For a student who takes precalc as a junior, calculus is available senior year, and choosing stats instead is choosing against maximum rigor and will be held against the student.

But for a student who takes precalc as a senior, calculus is not available. Precalculus represents the maximum rigor available to that student, and they won’t be penalized for not reaching calculus.

Anonymous wrote:This was a huge question for us going into admissions last year and people were insistent that our kid’s choices would be limited without calculus. His school did offer AP calculus and he chose not to take it. He took honors pre-calculus junior year and regular stats senior year (no honors or AP offered).

He was not an athlete, no hooks, did not apply ED anywhere.

Accepted Tufts, Emory Oxford, Wisconsin, Georgia, Ohio State. Waitlisted UVA, Emory main campus.

What did he choose?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, pp here and I misremembered. What Wisconsin says is “Courses that will not fulfill this requirement include statistics.” When my kid was applying, he was an intended humanities major who wanted to jump off the math train and went back and forth about what math to take senior year.

For him, the choice was between Calc and Stats so he took Calc bc of that language on the website. So I remembered it as needed Calc (but I was wrong). Sorry to worry anyone!

Wisconsin changed their language last year! They used to flat out say that they expected calc if offered. You remembered correctly.

Nope.
The old page (through 2023) said "We would highly recommend taking math your senior year and advancing through pre-calculus or calculus, if available"

https://web.archive.org/web/20230629193455/https://admissions.wisc.edu/can-i-get-in-to-uw-madison/


https://web.archive.org/web/20220621154517/https://admissions.wisc.edu/can-i-get-in-to-uw-madison/

The recent change was to drop the encouragement for even precalculus.

Expected = highly encouraged if available. Potato, poTAHto. 🙄

I think not having Calculus for humanities and social sciences students is fine for the Colby and Hamilton level of schools. Plus most state flagships. As long as the rigor and grades are solid everywhere else and they do well in the math portion of the SAT and ACT.

It becomes a big problem for anyone aiming for STEM. It’s difficult to imagine any engineering program today taking a kid that didn’t get to calculus in high school. They are all super competitive and calculus is a foundational discipline for that major. And of course not taking calculus almost always puts top 20 colleges out of reach - unless super hooked, i.e recruited athlete.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In truth, the high school calculus is often performative for rigor, and many serious STEM students repeat their level when they arrive at uni in order to settle into that uni's teaching style, especially covering a year's worth of high school calc in one semester. Unless there's some reason to push ahead for a certain major, it can be smart to slow the roll in math.

This is so reasonable but my hardworking kid pretty much needs honors Calc at their school or will be relegated to a safety school bc math is offered through multivariable. My kid is not shooting for an Ivy but wants to attend a high performing state flagship. And I know they will be “fine” wherever they attend but they have worked hard in HS and it is bummer to be boxed out of places. Such a broken system.

Why is a "high performing state flagship" so important?
In your view, why to non-flagship state universities exist?

Because top publics like UVA want to see the applicant has taken advantage what the high school has offered in terms of curriculum called “maximum rigor”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a form of perspective, whatever expectations might be the case at Colby and Hamilton also might be the case at schools such as Haverford, Notre Dame, Georgetown and Colgate.

I am sure all schools accept kids without calculus but I would be surprised if schools like Notre Dame and Georgetown are accepting kids without calculus from schools where multivariable and BC Calc are offered (and I think the entire DMV area offers BC Calc.)

I'm sure some do, there are no hard cutoffs, but the math just doesn't work to say that all of the top 10-20% (350,000-700,000) of students are getting into T50 schools that only enroll 3-4% (under 200,000) of graduates

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In truth, the high school calculus is often performative for rigor, and many serious STEM students repeat their level when they arrive at uni in order to settle into that uni's teaching style, especially covering a year's worth of high school calc in one semester. Unless there's some reason to push ahead for a certain major, it can be smart to slow the roll in math.

This is so reasonable but my hardworking kid pretty much needs honors Calc at their school or will be relegated to a safety school bc math is offered through multivariable. My kid is not shooting for an Ivy but wants to attend a high performing state flagship. And I know they will be “fine” wherever they attend but they have worked hard in HS and it is bummer to be boxed out of places. Such a broken system.

Why is a "high performing state flagship" so important?
In your view, why to non-flagship state universities exist?

Not my view, my kid’s view. Though to be fair, my kid doesn’t use that term (I was using DCUM short-hand). They would say they are interested in a particular group of schools for a combination of intangible qualities as well as specifics of the major to which they are applying. They also think their overall resume is better than the average applicant to these schools. Like I said, they will be “fine” but likely not at a first choice school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In truth, the high school calculus is often performative for rigor, and many serious STEM students repeat their level when they arrive at uni in order to settle into that uni's teaching style, especially covering a year's worth of high school calc in one semester. Unless there's some reason to push ahead for a certain major, it can be smart to slow the roll in math.

This is so reasonable but my hardworking kid pretty much needs honors Calc at their school or will be relegated to a safety school bc math is offered through multivariable. My kid is not shooting for an Ivy but wants to attend a high performing state flagship. And I know they will be “fine” wherever they attend but they have worked hard in HS and it is bummer to be boxed out of places. Such a broken system.

Why is a "high performing state flagship" so important?
In your view, why to non-flagship state universities exist?

Anonymous wrote:No, My kid got accepted to 6 out of 7 schools, with only taking pre-calc. UMD, Ohio State, Pitt, and Penn State are all in the top 100.

How many years ago?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, pp here and I misremembered. What Wisconsin says is “Courses that will not fulfill this requirement include statistics.” When my kid was applying, he was an intended humanities major who wanted to jump off the math train and went back and forth about what math to take senior year.

For him, the choice was between Calc and Stats so he took Calc bc of that language on the website. So I remembered it as needed Calc (but I was wrong). Sorry to worry anyone!

Wisconsin changed their language last year! They used to flat out say that they expected calc if offered. You remembered correctly.

Nope.
The old page (through 2023) said "We would highly recommend taking math your senior year and advancing through pre-calculus or calculus, if available"

https://web.archive.org/web/20230629193455/https://admissions.wisc.edu/can-i-get-in-to-uw-madison/


https://web.archive.org/web/20220621154517/https://admissions.wisc.edu/can-i-get-in-to-uw-madison/

The recent change was to drop the encouragement for even precalculus.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, pp here and I misremembered. What Wisconsin says is “Courses that will not fulfill this requirement include statistics.” When my kid was applying, he was an intended humanities major who wanted to jump off the math train and went back and forth about what math to take senior year.

For him, the choice was between Calc and Stats so he took Calc bc of that language on the website. So I remembered it as needed Calc (but I was wrong). Sorry to worry anyone!

Wisconsin changed their language last year! They used to flat out say that they expected calc if offered. You remembered correctly.

Thanks! You made me feel less crazy this morning. I have a tendency to gaslight myself (which is what I did when I went to the website to try and be helpful).

Ha! No worries—I remember this VERY clearly because I flat out told my kid he was giving up Wisconsin if he chose regular stats over calculus senior year and was thrilled when the language changed last fall and relieved that he was still accepted! Very few of us use calculus in daily life — it’s unfortunate that it’s become such a litmus test.

Our private has a math placement test for incoming 9th graders, and as a result a lot of kids who were accelerated in public middle school have to retake Algebra 1. They finish in precalc and do well in college admissions, even in STEM fields, provided they do well on the math section of the SAT.

Anonymous wrote:In truth, the high school calculus is often performative for rigor, and many serious STEM students repeat their level when they arrive at uni in order to settle into that uni's teaching style, especially covering a year's worth of high school calc in one semester. Unless there's some reason to push ahead for a certain major, it can be smart to slow the roll in math.

This is so reasonable but my hardworking kid pretty much needs honors Calc at their school or will be relegated to a safety school bc math is offered through multivariable. My kid is not shooting for an Ivy but wants to attend a high performing state flagship. And I know they will be “fine” wherever they attend but they have worked hard in HS and it is bummer to be boxed out of places. Such a broken system.