Anonymous
10/13/2025 10:35
Subject: Do MAGAs want a Christian Nation or a Free Nation?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This White House document about religious freedom seems self-contradictory. A free nation (and the leader thereof) should not specify that people must believe in a single creator or any creator.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/2025/09/president-trump-champions-religious-freedom-unveils-america-prays/
Personally, I value us as a "Free nation." I am also, admittedly, an atheist. Am I still welcome in the US? Or do conservatives want religion as a litmus test for being a "true" American?
people want their children to have good jobs and healthcare. to have hope that their lives will be better.
that will never happen when Democrats allow overwhelming immigration of low wage workers to flood the nation. Add the overwhelming number of H1Bs, OPTs, L1s, H4EAD, over and over and over that allow millions to take US citizens jobs.
wake up progressives.
focus on policies that US voters want and you will get elected and you can implement good things for US workers. rather than pissing in the wind and complaining about those racist magas.
What does this have to do with religion?
Anonymous
10/13/2025 09:23
Subject: Do MAGAs want a Christian Nation or a Free Nation?
Anonymous wrote:This White House document about religious freedom seems self-contradictory. A free nation (and the leader thereof) should not specify that people must believe in a single creator or any creator.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/2025/09/president-trump-champions-religious-freedom-unveils-america-prays/
Personally, I value us as a "Free nation." I am also, admittedly, an atheist. Am I still welcome in the US? Or do conservatives want religion as a litmus test for being a "true" American?
people want their children to have good jobs and healthcare. to have hope that their lives will be better.
that will never happen when Democrats allow overwhelming immigration of low wage workers to flood the nation. Add the overwhelming number of H1Bs, OPTs, L1s, H4EAD, over and over and over that allow millions to take US citizens jobs.
wake up progressives.
focus on policies that US voters want and you will get elected and you can implement good things for US workers. rather than pissing in the wind and complaining about those racist magas.
Anonymous
10/13/2025 09:19
Subject: Do MAGAs want a Christian Nation or a Free Nation?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I want it to be a free nation with Christian ideals.
I do not want the level of national religious coercion that I see in Europe. For example, our IRS should not levy a tax on us to force tithing and then redistribute it to the church like they do in Germany and other places. Not the state's role.
Yes. Do they still do that in Germany? I was stunned when I lived there and learned that. I think they distributed it by percentages of membership?
I was also surprised to learn that there were Catholic cities and Protestant cities. Not sure if that was by law at one time or just custom. (Of course, in modern times it is different.)
For example: Nurnberg was Protestant and Wurzburg was Catholic.
Yes they still do. It's led to a decline in church membership. Also Protestants and Catholics are taxed at different rates, I can't remember which is higher, so people changed denominations.
I'm convinced that people like OP have litte contact with the outside world. Maybe a summer abroad or annual vacations overseas, but they have not engaged deeply with the culture. Europe has way, way more coercive religious policies than we do. And our new abortion framework mirrors most of Europe's, which is a true fact no matter how many times it is deleted by the moderator. We are a much more secular nation than most western democracies and that remains true in spite of recent reforms.
OP here and I have traveled in Europe quite a lot. Countries with freedom and high proportion of atheists seem to do quite well. Requiring atheism or any religion, not good. Freedom being the ultimate point.
Anonymous
10/13/2025 09:15
Subject: Do MAGAs want a Christian Nation or a Free Nation?
Sweden, Denmark, high proportion atheist population. Not all of Europe is so religious.
Anonymous
10/13/2025 09:08
Subject: Do MAGAs want a Christian Nation or a Free Nation?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This White House document about religious freedom seems self-contradictory. A free nation (and the leader thereof) should not specify that people must believe in a single creator or any creator.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/2025/09/president-trump-champions-religious-freedom-unveils-america-prays/
Personally, I value us as a "Free nation." I am also, admittedly, an atheist. Am I still welcome in the US? Or do conservatives want religion as a litmus test for being a "true" American?
Maybe it's your atheism, but you seem really confused.
DP. The founding fathers intended for us to be freely able to be atheists, Christians, Zoroastrians, Hindus, whatever we like.
Anyone who thinks they wanted for us to be a Christian nation the way Trump does is the confused one.
Trump isn’t even a Christian. He just hires all of these fake Christians for his staff.
Wait a minute...you're telling me that the guy who couldn't pick out a favorite bible verse, couldn't say whether he preferred the Old or New Testament, mentioned "two Corinthians" and is the living embodiment of all seven deadly sins isn't a Christian? Well I'll be!
seriously....he wouldn't even put his hand on the Bible for his swearing in.
+1000 This. He took MAGAs for a ride and they're willfully ignoring it. Of course he wouldn't put his hand on a Bible during the Oath of Office. He believes he's a king who answers to no one, including God. He's not a believer at all. Oh sure, he will say what he needs to about "protecting Christianity" to keep himself as MAGA's star. He'll pretend to speak their language and throw around some catch phrases to keep them orbiting around him, but he's not a native-- never had been, never will be, never even wants to be.
He knows MAGA will make excuses for his action (or inaction). He's using their faith in God against them to gain power; can anything be more evil than that?
Anonymous
10/13/2025 08:59
Subject: Do MAGAs want a Christian Nation or a Free Nation?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I want it to be a free nation with Christian ideals.
I do not want the level of national religious coercion that I see in Europe. For example, our IRS should not levy a tax on us to force tithing and then redistribute it to the church like they do in Germany and other places. Not the state's role.
Yes. Do they still do that in Germany? I was stunned when I lived there and learned that. I think they distributed it by percentages of membership?
I was also surprised to learn that there were Catholic cities and Protestant cities. Not sure if that was by law at one time or just custom. (Of course, in modern times it is different.)
For example: Nurnberg was Protestant and Wurzburg was Catholic.
Yes they still do. It's led to a decline in church membership. Also Protestants and Catholics are taxed at different rates, I can't remember which is higher, so people changed denominations.
I'm convinced that people like OP have litte contact with the outside world. Maybe a summer abroad or annual vacations overseas, but they have not engaged deeply with the culture. Europe has way, way more coercive religious policies than we do. And our new abortion framework mirrors most of Europe's, which is a true fact no matter how many times it is deleted by the moderator. We are a much more secular nation than most western democracies and that remains true in spite of recent reforms.
Anonymous
10/13/2025 08:52
Subject: Do MAGAs want a Christian Nation or a Free Nation?
Anonymous wrote:I want it to be a free nation with Christian ideals.
I do not want the level of national religious coercion that I see in Europe. For example, our IRS should not levy a tax on us to force tithing and then redistribute it to the church like they do in Germany and other places. Not the state's role.
Yes. Do they still do that in Germany? I was stunned when I lived there and learned that. I think they distributed it by percentages of membership?
I was also surprised to learn that there were Catholic cities and Protestant cities. Not sure if that was by law at one time or just custom. (Of course, in modern times it is different.)
For example: Nurnberg was Protestant and Wurzburg was Catholic.
Anonymous
10/13/2025 08:49
Subject: Do MAGAs want a Christian Nation or a Free Nation?
Anonymous wrote:A free nation assumes Christian morality. Separation of church and state is Christian principle.
This. Go try to live freely in a non-Christian country. We had a few officially atheistic states, how did that work out?
Anonymous
10/13/2025 08:41
Subject: Do MAGAs want a Christian Nation or a Free Nation?
I want it to be a free nation with Christian ideals.
I do not want the level of national religious coercion that I see in Europe. For example, our IRS should not levy a tax on us to force tithing and then redistribute it to the church like they do in Germany and other places. Not the state's role.
I do not want the level of national religious coercion that I see in Europe. For example, our IRS should not levy a tax on us to force tithing and then redistribute it to the church like they do in Germany and other places. Not the state's role.
Anonymous
10/13/2025 08:22
Subject: Do MAGAs want a Christian Nation or a Free Nation?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This White House document about religious freedom seems self-contradictory. A free nation (and the leader thereof) should not specify that people must believe in a single creator or any creator.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/2025/09/president-trump-champions-religious-freedom-unveils-america-prays/
Personally, I value us as a "Free nation." I am also, admittedly, an atheist. Am I still welcome in the US? Or do conservatives want religion as a litmus test for being a "true" American?
Maybe it's your atheism, but you seem really confused.
Hence the question, sure, that would be the reason to post. Care to elaborate?
I'm not particularly religious myself. But I think atheist such as the OP take for granted how easy going the de facto Amercian religion is.
The more I've been exposed to religions such as Islam, Hinduism etc, the less I am inclined to think yeah we need more of that. For example, having worked with these people as managers and executives at companies.
It's pretty shocking when they are upset about you are not working on Sunday. I know it's hard to believe but Islam doesn't rest on Sunday. When's the last time you heard an Atheist, "Nah, I don't believe in Sunday rest that is stupid god talk."
I'd take American Christianity over Chinese Atheism any day. I'm talking about quality of life here.
I'm an atheist who doesn't give a shit about sabbath, but thinks we should get weekends off for healthy work-life balance.
You're talking about greedy, exploitative businessmen and I hate to break it to you but there are plenty of greedy exploitative businessmen who call themselves Christian.
This. Actually some of the worst people I've known are "christians"
Anonymous
10/13/2025 08:17
Subject: Do MAGAs want a Christian Nation or a Free Nation?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This White House document about religious freedom seems self-contradictory. A free nation (and the leader thereof) should not specify that people must believe in a single creator or any creator.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/2025/09/president-trump-champions-religious-freedom-unveils-america-prays/
Personally, I value us as a "Free nation." I am also, admittedly, an atheist. Am I still welcome in the US? Or do conservatives want religion as a litmus test for being a "true" American?
Maybe it's your atheism, but you seem really confused.
Hence the question, sure, that would be the reason to post. Care to elaborate?
I'm not particularly religious myself. But I think atheist such as the OP take for granted how easy going the de facto Amercian religion is.
The more I've been exposed to religions such as Islam, Hinduism etc, the less I am inclined to think yeah we need more of that. For example, having worked with these people as managers and executives at companies.
It's pretty shocking when they are upset about you are not working on Sunday. I know it's hard to believe but Islam doesn't rest on Sunday. When's the last time you heard an Atheist, "Nah, I don't believe in Sunday rest that is stupid god talk."
I'd take American Christianity over Chinese Atheism any day. I'm talking about quality of life here.
I'm an atheist who doesn't give a shit about sabbath, but thinks we should get weekends off for healthy work-life balance.
You're talking about greedy, exploitative businessmen and I hate to break it to you but there are plenty of greedy exploitative businessmen who call themselves Christian.
Anonymous
10/13/2025 08:15
Subject: Do MAGAs want a Christian Nation or a Free Nation?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This White House document about religious freedom seems self-contradictory. A free nation (and the leader thereof) should not specify that people must believe in a single creator or any creator.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/2025/09/president-trump-champions-religious-freedom-unveils-america-prays/
Personally, I value us as a "Free nation." I am also, admittedly, an atheist. Am I still welcome in the US? Or do conservatives want religion as a litmus test for being a "true" American?
Maybe it's your atheism, but you seem really confused.
DP. The founding fathers intended for us to be freely able to be atheists, Christians, Zoroastrians, Hindus, whatever we like.
Anyone who thinks they wanted for us to be a Christian nation the way Trump does is the confused one.
Trump isn’t even a Christian. He just hires all of these fake Christians for his staff.
Wait a minute...you're telling me that the guy who couldn't pick out a favorite bible verse, couldn't say whether he preferred the Old or New Testament, mentioned "two Corinthians" and is the living embodiment of all seven deadly sins isn't a Christian? Well I'll be!
seriously....he wouldn't even put his hand on the Bible for his swearing in.
Anonymous
10/13/2025 08:15
Subject: Do MAGAs want a Christian Nation or a Free Nation?
Anonymous wrote:This White House document about religious freedom seems self-contradictory. A free nation (and the leader thereof) should not specify that people must believe in a single creator or any creator.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/2025/09/president-trump-champions-religious-freedom-unveils-america-prays/
Personally, I value us as a "Free nation." I am also, admittedly, an atheist. Am I still welcome in the US? Or do conservatives want religion as a litmus test for being a "true" American?
They have no understanding or respect for the separation of church and state so....
Anonymous
10/13/2025 07:24
Subject: Do MAGAs want a Christian Nation or a Free Nation?
Anonymous wrote:This White House document about religious freedom seems self-contradictory. A free nation (and the leader thereof) should not specify that people must believe in a single creator or any creator.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/2025/09/president-trump-champions-religious-freedom-unveils-america-prays/
Personally, I value us as a "Free nation." I am also, admittedly, an atheist. Am I still welcome in the US? Or do conservatives want religion as a litmus test for being a "true" American?
Believing in a "Creator" does not mean Christian. The Founding Fathers and the Declaration of Independence were largely diests, an extremely Unitarian Universalist dishwater version of religion.
Anonymous
10/13/2025 07:21
Subject: Do MAGAs want a Christian Nation or a Free Nation?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This White House document about religious freedom seems self-contradictory. A free nation (and the leader thereof) should not specify that people must believe in a single creator or any creator.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/2025/09/president-trump-champions-religious-freedom-unveils-america-prays/
Personally, I value us as a "Free nation." I am also, admittedly, an atheist. Am I still welcome in the US? Or do conservatives want religion as a litmus test for being a "true" American?
Maybe it's your atheism, but you seem really confused.
DP. The founding fathers intended for us to be freely able to be atheists, Christians, Zoroastrians, Hindus, whatever we like.
Anyone who thinks they wanted for us to be a Christian nation the way Trump does is the confused one.
Trump isn’t even a Christian. He just hires all of these fake Christians for his staff.
Wait a minute...you're telling me that the guy who couldn't pick out a favorite bible verse, couldn't say whether he preferred the Old or New Testament, mentioned "two Corinthians" and is the living embodiment of all seven deadly sins isn't a Christian? Well I'll be!