Anonymous wrote:So if HYP students chase ROI, they get criticized for not seeking intellectual curiosity, but if they seek intellectual curiosity, they get criticized for not valuing ROI. Aren't they in a no-win situation here?

"Who said that!?" in Porscha Williams voice.

Omg this thread is reminding me that one night this winter when my family is asleep or otherwise gone I want to get pleasantly sauced and watch With Honors.

Anonymous wrote:I don't think there's much new here. For at least 20 years now, Harvard undergrad has tilted overwhelmingly to being a school about networking and connections - and not much else. The grade inflation, the cutting classes, and the priority being placed on finance and consulting clubs has been the norm for a long time. More than 50 percent of all Harvard students go into finance or consulting. The networking is the point of Harvard - not the educational experience.

Nor the social life. When MIT is known as the "party" school in Cambridge, things are very bleak indeed for normal undergrads at Harvard.

Harvard attracts a "type." And it's not the intellectually curious type. Both my kids go to T15 schools. We visited Harvard. Neither was interested in applying. Cold, cold school for those not interested in Wall Street.

I don’t know how you assessed this from your visit but it’s not what we’re seeing on campus this year. The class of ‘29 is dynamic- my son’s bucket is being filled in all areas and he’s not headed toward Wall Street.

I’m sure they don’t skip the classes that they think are important to attend. But if it’s just a filler class with an easy a, why bother? For those classes, the only point of being at Harvard is proving you got in.

Actually, OP what makes you think any Harvard students goes to class? Lolol

Anonymous wrote:So if HYP students chase ROI, they get criticized for not seeking intellectual curiosity, but if they seek intellectual curiosity, they get criticized for not valuing ROI. Aren't they in a no-win situation here?

All the parents whose kids did not get into Harvard LOVE to hate on Harvard.

Anonymous wrote:Hasn’t it been this way for decades? Friend of mine graduated from Harvard in late 90s and I remember him telling me he never went to class because he had access to the notes (or maybe even recorded lectures? Can’t remember specifics). He’s a doctor now.

In 1988, my Harvard-educated professor told us a story about a Harvard person who wandered through a building and decided to take a class final exam on a whim. For a class they hadn't taken. Because this was olden times with Blue Books, the person was able to retrieve their graded exam book and they did well.

So if HYP students chase ROI, they get criticized for not seeking intellectual curiosity, but if they seek intellectual curiosity, they get criticized for not valuing ROI. Aren't they in a no-win situation here?

Anonymous wrote:I don't think there's much new here. For at least 20 years now, Harvard undergrad has tilted overwhelmingly to being a school about networking and connections - and not much else. The grade inflation, the cutting classes, and the priority being placed on finance and consulting clubs has been the norm for a long time. More than 50 percent of all Harvard students go into finance or consulting. The networking is the point of Harvard - not the educational experience.

Nor the social life. When MIT is known as the "party" school in Cambridge, things are very bleak indeed for normal undergrads at Harvard.

Harvard attracts a "type." And it's not the intellectually curious type. Both my kids go to T15 schools. We visited Harvard. Neither was interested in applying. Cold, cold school for those not interested in Wall Street.

Princeton and to some extent, Yale are also like this. The rankings do not capture this environment and families are fooled by the brand name. That name will help them but not intellectually stimulate most of the students. Not that it matters if they only care about finance and consulting careers.

I don't think there's much new here. For at least 20 years now, Harvard undergrad has tilted overwhelmingly to being a school about networking and connections - and not much else. The grade inflation, the cutting classes, and the priority being placed on finance and consulting clubs has been the norm for a long time. More than 50 percent of all Harvard students go into finance or consulting. The networking is the point of Harvard - not the educational experience.

Nor the social life. When MIT is known as the "party" school in Cambridge, things are very bleak indeed for normal undergrads at Harvard.

Harvard attracts a "type." And it's not the intellectually curious type. Both my kids go to T15 schools. We visited Harvard. Neither was interested in applying. Cold, cold school for those not interested in Wall Street.

I also have a freshman and he’s not missing much class (that said, he will likely be a humanities concentrator so he’s not mingling with the finance bros.) He did miss one lecture because Mike Pence was coming to speak and he was invited to meet with him. He then had lunch with the professor of the class that he skipped.

He “works” from 8am until midnight… and that includes academics and social commitments, some of which are potential career advancers but others are religious, cultural and just for fun.

When I was a freshman in college I was going to class, rushing a sorority and still had a ton of downtime. DS is booked up non-stop. At some point he’s going to crash (currently studying for midterms and I can tell he’s a bit on edge) but he’s absolutely loving it so far. He doesn’t have imposter syndrome… he’s there to learn from others and for the community, which he says is incredible.

I do think that kids who aren’t as social will struggle to get the best out of Harvard. Everything is at your fingertips but you have to be bold enough to reach for it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not just Harvard folks. Had an argument with my DD at UCLA. She was complaining about TA in discussion section giving pop quizzes. Doesn’t want and doesn’t do the reading. Yes. Everyone trying to get clubs and internships. It’s a new world. Made me sad. St my SLAC we stayed up late into the night debating ideas. It seems like these kids want to stay on the hamster wheel that got them i to college. Or it’s so expensive now you need an ROI. In my day, the ROI was learning to think critically and recognize beauty. Those days are gone.

I'm hoping my kid at an SLAC will still get some of that. But kids are definitely thinking about and working intensely toward a professional future in a way most of us didn't back in the day.

Definitely too expensive nowadays not to think
about ROI and employability. Also with more emphasis on FGLI and social mobility these days, there’s probably more students from families that don’t have the luxury of studying liberal arts just for the sake of learning. That is a luxury for the truly upper class.

Anonymous wrote:I have a freshmen at Harvard now. There have been hedge funds in the Charles Hotel interviewing kids for summer internships since at least two weeks ago. He will skip class, sleep and eating for that, but he cannot skip team practices.

Sucks for him!

Anonymous wrote:It’s not just Harvard folks. Had an argument with my DD at UCLA. She was complaining about TA in discussion section giving pop quizzes. Doesn’t want and doesn’t do the reading. Yes. Everyone trying to get clubs and internships. It’s a new world. Made me sad. St my SLAC we stayed up late into the night debating ideas. It seems like these kids want to stay on the hamster wheel that got them i to college. Or it’s so expensive now you need an ROI. In my day, the ROI was learning to think critically and recognize beauty. Those days are gone.

I'm hoping my kid at an SLAC will still get some of that. But kids are definitely thinking about and working intensely toward a professional future in a way most of us didn't back in the day.

It’s not just Harvard folks. Had an argument with my DD at UCLA. She was complaining about TA in discussion section giving pop quizzes. Doesn’t want and doesn’t do the reading. Yes. Everyone trying to get clubs and internships. It’s a new world. Made me sad. St my SLAC we stayed up late into the night debating ideas. It seems like these kids want to stay on the hamster wheel that got them i to college. Or it’s so expensive now you need an ROI. In my day, the ROI was learning to think critically and recognize beauty. Those days are gone.