The EA pool is usually stronger than ED b/c they students are also trying for even higher ranked schools. ED doesn't need to be as strong b/c those students are committed and aren't waiting to hear what Brown has to say. It's usually an easier admit.

Anonymous wrote:PP: she agrees and it is her one strike against Marsal: they have indicated it would be difficult to get a double major in 4 years (strict requirements and the difficulty of a big school in always getting your classes). She would love to double major in the subject she wishes to teach, which is also another area if interest (in case she wants to pursue a different career). Other schools make it a little easier to double major - but this is not enough in her opinion to rule out Michigan as we have resources for her to take summer classes and she is hoping her AP classes will help clear some requirements too.

A PP. A few comments. My kid has gotten off several Michigan class waitlists. And he's been happy with each of the three semesters he's registered for. You can enroll + waitlist more classes than a normal course load. And you can add to your schedule between registration and a few weeks into class. Register early, go to the first day of class, ask the prof for a permission slip to enroll. That system works fine from what we can see. It is needed to smooth demand and balance classroom assignments.

I think your daughter should look at Wisconsin, Michigan State, and Pitt if she hasn't already. Based on general vibes of what you say she would like. Although if her dual major would be music, I'm not sure about fit.

ED rate will be higher for oos than EA for oos ever was.
No question.
So there is your answer.

But if your question should instead be, “Should my kid apply?” that will depend on stats and major applying for. I would not assume business or engineering ED, say, will get you over the hump if you would not have been in the running as a competitive applicant for EA in years prior.

Anonymous wrote:My DD is trying to decide if she should apply ED to Michigan. Looking for info on how OOS admit rates might be affected.

Some online speculators guess ED will offer a bump over EA.

Others say it might be more competitive because kids who wanted certainty avoided Michigan because it didn’t have an ED option previously.

She likes two schools equally (applying liberal arts major) so now she is looking for info on strategy. She is at a big public HS and doesn't get a ton of guidance from college counselor.

TIA

The underlying assumption here, that a large number of students who in previous years would have applied ED to Michigan but chose to ED to Northwestern or Chicago or Vanderbilt or Cornell instead, doesn't seem super-plausible to me.

I have no inside info, but I can't imagine why it wouldn't be an advantage to apply ED, even if the pool is slightly stronger. At all ED schools, AOs report that the ED pool is stronger than EA or RD.

Michigan moved to ED to streamline the admissions process -- they just couldn't handle all those applications well -- and to improve yield. Nothing improves yield like ED! Plus, for OOS, accepted ED applicants will bring the $$ without having to be further wooed.

PP: she agrees and it is her one strike against Marsal: they have indicated it would be difficult to get a double major in 4 years (strict requirements and the difficulty of a big school in always getting your classes). She would love to double major in the subject she wishes to teach, which is also another area if interest (in case she wants to pursue a different career). Other schools make it a little easier to double major - but this is not enough in her opinion to rule out Michigan as we have resources for her to take summer classes and she is hoping her AP classes will help clear some requirements too.

Anonymous wrote:She likes the midwest and would be happy staying in Michigan though she will not apply into LEAPS bc she would want to spend 4 years in Ann Arbor. She wants elementary Ed and would love to move into an admin role eventually.

She is very involved in high school with a ton of leadership (multiple sports captain plus two club presidencies) and has scoped out all the clubs she would want to join at Michigan including club sports. She also has a background tutoring and working with kids (including a job), which she would obviously continue through her studies. She also knows a handful of kids who are there already. Plus she is a sports fanatic and would have a blast being a spectator at football games as well as sports she plays in HS. Socially, I see no issue for her at a bigger school.

She feels like she would love Michigan but she needs to get in!

DP: I think, for education students/ future teachers, where you go undergrad doesn't make much of a difference professionally. All teachers have to get an MA, at least, and aspiring school superintendents might want an EdD. Those grad level programs, from what I understand, are not super-selective so you can be relatively confident of getting a second degree from Harvard/ Columbia (Teachers' College) / Vanderbilt if you want to pay for it.

So, for people going into education, short term happiness should be at the top of the decision list when deciding on an undergrad. I'm assuming that since you can afford Michigan OOS, financial considerations are not a priority. Sounds like the kid will dive into the social life at a large, state school, and will be excited about the prestige/ peer group at Michigan.

She likes the midwest and would be happy staying in Michigan though she will not apply into LEAPS bc she would want to spend 4 years in Ann Arbor. She wants elementary Ed and would love to move into an admin role eventually.

She is very involved in high school with a ton of leadership (multiple sports captain plus two club presidencies) and has scoped out all the clubs she would want to join at Michigan including club sports. She also has a background tutoring and working with kids (including a job), which she would obviously continue through her studies. She also knows a handful of kids who are there already. Plus she is a sports fanatic and would have a blast being a spectator at football games as well as sports she plays in HS. Socially, I see no issue for her at a bigger school.

She feels like she would love Michigan but she needs to get in!

Anonymous wrote:Marsal. Other option is a top teaching pegeam where she is legacy and will apply TO

I am an in-state Michigan parent and grad alum. Michigan State is a more common background for teachers and administrators in the Detroit metro area (which has a lot of the more affluent districts in Michigan). Michigan grads are fewer and farther between in the public schools I'm familiar with. Often in rarer specialties and high school teaching.

Does your child want to live and work in Michigan after graduation? A lot of the well-functioning Michigan districts are fairly small and hometown in character.

Which program is larger of the 2 that interest her for ED, and does that scale ensure the cohort size she would like and sufficient flexibility with coursework?

Does she see herself as a future principal or superintendent where a Michigan degree might have a bit of cachet?

Is she secondary education oriented?

I'd also like to know what social aspects of each ED choice she'd take advantage of to make a big school small. A living learning community? A musical group? What has she picked out? Being in a smaller school within Michigan, she may need some social life beyond the Education school cohort and the dorm. There are lots of activities to choose from. I'd recommend having an up front plan before ED'ing.

And as for ED strategy, my impression is that every teacher candidate is valuable right now in the local Michigan job market. There aren't enough locals entering the field. So I think you're in a situation that would at a minimum be LSA-like with respect to acceptance and probably easier. That makes me guess that ED'ing to the legacy school with TO would be a bigger boost over EA chances. If we're purely talking about strategic leverage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is also making this decision, OP. Michigan and another school are the top two; they are equivalent academically for what my kid wants to study, and they both offer the EC kid wants to pursue in college. Kid is visiting the other school one more time and then will make the decision basically on vibes.

I think ED is only for the first choice school. If your kid truly does not have a preference between her top two and is confident she’d be happy at either, then, sure, factor likelihood of admission in. My suspicion is that very high stats, full-pay, OOS kids from high schools that send a lot of kids to Michigan historically will have the very good odds in ED.

But will they still have good odds in EA? For example, if your (private) HS historically had a LARGE number admitted OOS EA, do you expect that to continue?

I think it depends on how many they accept in ED and historical yield. Our large public HS sends 6-10 kids to Michigan every year (out of about a dozen accepted most years, so high yield). I’m assuming a bunch of kids will apply ED…but maybe Michigan accepts only a few ED and postpones the rest to EA because they know they can yield them in EA?

Obviously impossible to know. But this is how I’d think about it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is also making this decision, OP. Michigan and another school are the top two; they are equivalent academically for what my kid wants to study, and they both offer the EC kid wants to pursue in college. Kid is visiting the other school one more time and then will make the decision basically on vibes.

I think ED is only for the first choice school. If your kid truly does not have a preference between her top two and is confident she’d be happy at either, then, sure, factor likelihood of admission in. My suspicion is that very high stats, full-pay, OOS kids from high schools that send a lot of kids to Michigan historically will have the very good odds in ED.

But will they still have good odds in EA? For example, if your (private) HS historically had a LARGE number admitted OOS EA, do you expect that to continue?

My high stats kid was the only one from our private HS accepted EA last year (also got into UMich's honors program) in the end he didn't go (picked a t10 private instead). I would think they are trying to increase yield OOS with introduction of ED

Anonymous wrote:My kid is also making this decision, OP. Michigan and another school are the top two; they are equivalent academically for what my kid wants to study, and they both offer the EC kid wants to pursue in college. Kid is visiting the other school one more time and then will make the decision basically on vibes.

I think ED is only for the first choice school. If your kid truly does not have a preference between her top two and is confident she’d be happy at either, then, sure, factor likelihood of admission in. My suspicion is that very high stats, full-pay, OOS kids from high schools that send a lot of kids to Michigan historically will have the very good odds in ED.

But will they still have good odds in EA? For example, if your (private) HS historically had a LARGE number admitted OOS EA, do you expect that to continue?