Individualism vs. Socialism.

Individual is always a threat to the hive-minded Socialists.

Omg the village is not free childcare though this happens

It’s people who love and give of themselves to your family and you do the same in return. I helped raise my friends kids - they are now having their own kids. They call me their second mom. When their mom isn’t around they call me mom. We found it’s confusing otherwise as this isn’t some open or lesbian relationship.

My son is an only child, we do family dinner w another family (my sons godparents and god brother). They teach my son, I teach their son and they are emergency contactsz

We travel for work but they aren’t my childcare. They will come through for emergencies if we are gone though.

We email the village updates - good and bad.

I don’t know how to do lots of things. But my village knows and they teach him those things.

This is not hard.

I’n 46, & grew up in a small town in the Midwest- mostly working class families. There was absolutely a “village”- because most couldn’t afford NOT to have a village. The village- and relying on neighbors to some degree- was everyone’s safety net.

And it wasn’t just among women (most of whom worked FT for most of their lives, but at jobs rather than careers). A lot was expected from men as well. People generally did not hire movers, plumbers, repairmen etc unless there was absolutely no choice. This was all DIY with other friends/neighbors as necessary. Collectively it would be figured out. My dad did not only do snow removal on our own driveway, but for 2 elderly neighbors also. It was just how things were. No one was forced to do these things but most did.

Same for women in terms of juggling childcare, helping with moves or illness or checking in on the elderly. People just did it, and they felt obligated but certainly were not forced.

None of it was really a choice for most. It was just how things worked when most people had little money- and it was the main safety net for most. I’m sure people were annoyed with each other at times but as a child I did not generally notice. I’m sure it definitely was not always “fair” to everyone either- there were some deadbeat types in town for sure.

I think some of the “village” has gone away because people can afford to just….not deal with it. You can hire out exactly what you need done, and have it done exactly the way you like. Or more or less how you like. Including childcare. And it is “fair” in the sense that no one is obligated to do more than take care of their own family.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you’re incorrect. I think it comes down to the fact that American women can earn money and aren’t interested in providing free labor for others. I’d argue people in your village didn’t have good opportunities, including even leisure activities, and were expected to provide unpaid labor.

This isn’t true. We are middle eastern and most of the women in my family are physicians and the same mindset applies. People pour their resources into others and have the community return the favor. Taking care of children collectively facilitates women working and doing more. When my husband was little a woman related to one of his relatives by marriage took care of him after school for free because she was an empty nester and she is family. This let his mother work without worry. His mother died younger but she surely would have done the same.

So basically OLD women are expected to work for free.

Helping extended family members is "working for free"?

DP. Yes. In this example, a family member watched the child after school. This happened because the family member likely couldn’t get a real job paying worthwhile pages and the parents didn’t have the income to hire help.

In poorer societies and countries people work from a young age until they die. They are typically expected to provide childcare to children.

It’s amazing progress that as American I can spend my retirement pursuing hobbies and leisure.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you’re incorrect. I think it comes down to the fact that American women can earn money and aren’t interested in providing free labor for others. I’d argue people in your village didn’t have good opportunities, including even leisure activities, and were expected to provide unpaid labor.

Individualism mindset. Refusal to help each other even though it is what is best for everyone. “Free Labor” you mean helping out your family members???

DP
I would consider that free labor as it mostly falls unfairly to women who are treated as "less than" - in other cultures and in ours.

+100000

A village just means relying on unpaid female labor. That’s it. Usually because people don’t have any money or means to outsource care.

Many Americans help out family members. There’s a difference between occasionally helping a family member out, and being a full time caregiver.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you’re incorrect. I think it comes down to the fact that American women can earn money and aren’t interested in providing free labor for others. I’d argue people in your village didn’t have good opportunities, including even leisure activities, and were expected to provide unpaid labor.

This isn’t true. We are middle eastern and most of the women in my family are physicians and the same mindset applies. People pour their resources into others and have the community return the favor. Taking care of children collectively facilitates women working and doing more. When my husband was little a woman related to one of his relatives by marriage took care of him after school for free because she was an empty nester and she is family. This let his mother work without worry. His mother died younger but she surely would have done the same.

So basically OLD women are expected to work for free.

Helping extended family members is "working for free"?

Anonymous wrote:IME when parents of young children lament the lack of a village it's often because their immediate family doesn't help for whatever reasons.
I personally wouldn't enjoy the type of culture that it involves overall but certainly would love some family reciprocity/ help. Both my and my husband's parents expect a lot from us and give almost nothing in return which is super draining (and frankly discouraging when we look around at the family "villages" some friends have) while our kids are very young.

It is shocking how many grandparents DO provide extensive childcare, carpooling, homecooked meals, help around the house (like handyman type stuff or even bigger stuff like painting, etc.) So if you don't have that (we didn't), it can feel like others have a much more manageable parenting load.

IME when parents of young children lament the lack of a village it's often because their immediate family doesn't help for whatever reasons.
I personally wouldn't enjoy the type of culture that it involves overall but certainly would love some family reciprocity/ help. Both my and my husband's parents expect a lot from us and give almost nothing in return which is super draining (and frankly discouraging when we look around at the family "villages" some friends have) while our kids are very young.

American only want free child care/help for themselves and are not interested in any other mom except to criticize.

I am a SAHM by choice. When the kids were younger, my SAHM friends and I used to do favors for each other all the time and it was a wonderful sense of community. I was the happiest socially that I have ever been in my life other than college. As the kids got older, started attending different schools, some moms went back to work and/or moved away from this area, I've really struggled to find a new community. I don't really need much help anymore (my kids are teens and one even drives) but I'd love some friendship/connection and even that seem like too much for people who are just SO busy all the time. I started working part time at our local elementary school a few years ago (even though the pay is absurd and I don't need the money) just to have some socialization/people to talk to each day! In general I feel like people in this area are just really busy and/or not looking to make new connections beyond the surface level. I think this contributes to the feeling of their being no "village." Everyone just wants to pay for their "village" instead.

Grew up in a mid sized Midwest town in the 70s. It was a lot like this. We were accountable to every adult we encountered. Other parents would correct us and/or rat us out to our parents. I have deep love for those other families we grew up with, many of whom were emotionally more invested in us than our biological family spread out across the country.

People have forgotten that women are community builders and just kept asking things of us. We can’t do it all.

It’s simply incompatible with how American life is set up now and I would go as far to say that it’s incompatible with American and western values.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you’re incorrect. I think it comes down to the fact that American women can earn money and aren’t interested in providing free labor for others. I’d argue people in your village didn’t have good opportunities, including even leisure activities, and were expected to provide unpaid labor.

This isn’t true. We are middle eastern and most of the women in my family are physicians and the same mindset applies. People pour their resources into others and have the community return the favor. Taking care of children collectively facilitates women working and doing more. When my husband was little a woman related to one of his relatives by marriage took care of him after school for free because she was an empty nester and she is family. This let his mother work without worry. His mother died younger but she surely would have done the same.

So basically OLD women are expected to work for free.

The people who scream village are the ones using others and not giving that support back from what I found.

Anonymous wrote:I think you’re incorrect. I think it comes down to the fact that American women can earn money and aren’t interested in providing free labor for others. I’d argue people in your village didn’t have good opportunities, including even leisure activities, and were expected to provide unpaid labor.

This isn’t true. We are middle eastern and most of the women in my family are physicians and the same mindset applies. People pour their resources into others and have the community return the favor. Taking care of children collectively facilitates women working and doing more. When my husband was little a woman related to one of his relatives by marriage took care of him after school for free because she was an empty nester and she is family. This let his mother work without worry. His mother died younger but she surely would have done the same.