Anonymous wrote:OP again - we had a full neuropsych and the diagnosis was adjustment disorder due to certain changes with the recommendation to revisit in a few years. Behavior issues and minor sensory issues are our main symptoms and the therapists have attributed them as potentially due to ADHD or anxiety, but DC doesn't fit all the criteria.

I have actually been taking a dog training class (for my dog, not my child), and dog training is all about positive reinforcement, not punishment/consequences.

Anyhow, all these perspectives have been very helpful.

Op, my oldest DC missed the diagnostic criteria for ADHD at age 6 by missing one of the criteria (like met 5 but not 6 of the symptoms) but the recommendations from the psychologist were that the 5 symptoms DC did show were really extreme and recommended therapy and potentially meds consistent with ADHD. No diagnosis did not mean no clear pathway for treatment.

I am a firm believer in therapy and meds. At age 6 when DC first got their testing, we did therapy for a year and then meds when DC’s classrooms behavior became unmanageable. Huge improvement, therapy continued for 6 months than stopped. Two years later (age 9) DC’s behavior was bad, tried medication adjustments, and nothing improved. Back to CBT and it helped, anxiety diagnosis a year later and added meds for that (while doing therapy) and things are much better. Therapy just stopped because of improved behavior.

My child is now a lot less hyperactive and impulsive, but off of the ADHD meds they are unable to manage behavior that is annoying. Not sure when they will outgrow that - the hope is to have them off meds at some point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 8yo DC has struggled with behavioral issues since Pre-K. Had a formal eval, but no diagnosis. We have done play therapy and parent training. Things improved a bit in school but we have been kicked out of two summer camps for hitting this summer. Emotional regulation is our big issue. No one has recommended medication, but the play therapist has said DC has a lot of ADHD characteristics. Most of the success stories I know about with ADHD or other behavioral issues seem to be paired with medication.

Has anyone had success without medication? If so, what worked?

Adhd in 8 year olds is very tricky to both diagnose and treat.

Before you go to pills and drugs, try real discipline and consequences for poor behavior. I know this is an unkind way of thinking, but think dog. Do this, X happens. Do that, Y happens. Whether it's loss of phone or no movie. The consequences don't really matter, as long as there are some. 8 is very malleable. Like a young dog.

The youth shrink thing is an industry. And you'll be sucked into their drugs and "therapy" forever. I would avoid them if you can. Try before they insist your kid needs their interventions.

I disagree with all of this. You have to understand what you are dealing with and remediate as much as possible and while you are doing that have developmentally appropriate expectations. And then, rewarding the behavior you want to see more of is much more effective than imposing consequences- especially ones that have nothing to do with the behavior. If you want to use dog training as your example, you reward when they are learning a new skill with treats - over and over until they do it without the treats. Punishing dogs just makes them afraid of you.

Also medication and therapy have saved my kids life.

A consequence is anything that immediately follows a behavior, it does not necessarily mean an aversive stimulus (what you’re calling a punisher).

OP again - we had a full neuropsych and the diagnosis was adjustment disorder due to certain changes with the recommendation to revisit in a few years. Behavior issues and minor sensory issues are our main symptoms and the therapists have attributed them as potentially due to ADHD or anxiety, but DC doesn't fit all the criteria.

I have actually been taking a dog training class (for my dog, not my child), and dog training is all about positive reinforcement, not punishment/consequences.

Anyhow, all these perspectives have been very helpful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 8yo DC has struggled with behavioral issues since Pre-K. Had a formal eval, but no diagnosis. We have done play therapy and parent training. Things improved a bit in school but we have been kicked out of two summer camps for hitting this summer. Emotional regulation is our big issue. No one has recommended medication, but the play therapist has said DC has a lot of ADHD characteristics. Most of the success stories I know about with ADHD or other behavioral issues seem to be paired with medication.

Has anyone had success without medication? If so, what worked?

Adhd in 8 year olds is very tricky to both diagnose and treat.

Before you go to pills and drugs, try real discipline and consequences for poor behavior. I know this is an unkind way of thinking, but think dog. Do this, X happens. Do that, Y happens. Whether it's loss of phone or no movie. The consequences don't really matter, as long as there are some. 8 is very malleable. Like a young dog.

The youth shrink thing is an industry. And you'll be sucked into their drugs and "therapy" forever. I would avoid them if you can. Try before they insist your kid needs their interventions.

I disagree with all of this. You have to understand what you are dealing with and remediate as much as possible and while you are doing that have developmentally appropriate expectations. And then, rewarding the behavior you want to see more of is much more effective than imposing consequences- especially ones that have nothing to do with the behavior. If you want to use dog training as your example, you reward when they are learning a new skill with treats - over and over until they do it without the treats. Punishing dogs just makes them afraid of you.

Also medication and therapy have saved my kids life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. One of my kids had serious, serious behavioral issues caused by a food allergy. Another one had the allergy too but the reaction was more inward. HUGE HUGE difference in quality of life when we figured this out. My one kid would probably be in jail now if we hadn't unraveled this mystery. Good luck, OP.

NP, to PP above— could you expand on this? We have multiple food allergies along with behavioral issues and difficulty with emotional regulation.

Try drinking real, fresh grapefruit juice with each meal. See if that helps. It blocks something in the digestive tract and makes some food allergies better. It's a simple, easy, safe thing to try.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 8yo DC has struggled with behavioral issues since Pre-K. Had a formal eval, but no diagnosis. We have done play therapy and parent training. Things improved a bit in school but we have been kicked out of two summer camps for hitting this summer. Emotional regulation is our big issue. No one has recommended medication, but the play therapist has said DC has a lot of ADHD characteristics. Most of the success stories I know about with ADHD or other behavioral issues seem to be paired with medication.

Has anyone had success without medication? If so, what worked?

Adhd in 8 year olds is very tricky to both diagnose and treat.

Before you go to pills and drugs, try real discipline and consequences for poor behavior. I know this is an unkind way of thinking, but think dog. Do this, X happens. Do that, Y happens. Whether it's loss of phone or no movie. The consequences don't really matter, as long as there are some. 8 is very malleable. Like a young dog.

The youth shrink thing is an industry. And you'll be sucked into their drugs and "therapy" forever. I would avoid them if you can. Try before they insist your kid needs their interventions.

Careful with this op. Of course you should be cautious, and you are. But if your child does have adhd, trying to consequence it out of them will actually just put your child at risk for comorbidity with anxiety/depression later in life because their brain actually does work differently yet you’re treating them like they can respond to the consequence the same/cause and effect and when they don’t - making their self worth often super low. It’s one of the big reasons adhd is often cobmorbid with anxiety and depression later because kids get so much negative feedback. So while there are a lot of negative things said in popular culture and bias out there about meds, if it gives your child’s brain more space and less negative feedback it can be super positive and pay dividends over time. Nothing is perfect - but there is positive emerging research that starting meds early rewires the brain in a lot of ways.

Because some kids have been misdiagnosed in the past doesn’t mean you should avoid a diagnosis and the appropriate treatment (first line and most effective is meds) if your child does in fact have ADHD (which we don’t know at this point).

Anonymous wrote:My 8yo DC has struggled with behavioral issues since Pre-K. Had a formal eval, but no diagnosis. We have done play therapy and parent training. Things improved a bit in school but we have been kicked out of two summer camps for hitting this summer. Emotional regulation is our big issue. No one has recommended medication, but the play therapist has said DC has a lot of ADHD characteristics. Most of the success stories I know about with ADHD or other behavioral issues seem to be paired with medication.

Has anyone had success without medication? If so, what worked?

Adhd in 8 year olds is very tricky to both diagnose and treat.

Before you go to pills and drugs, try real discipline and consequences for poor behavior. I know this is an unkind way of thinking, but think dog. Do this, X happens. Do that, Y happens. Whether it's loss of phone or no movie. The consequences don't really matter, as long as there are some. 8 is very malleable. Like a young dog.

The youth shrink thing is an industry. And you'll be sucked into their drugs and "therapy" forever. I would avoid them if you can. Try before they insist your kid needs their interventions.

Anonymous wrote:Yes. One of my kids had serious, serious behavioral issues caused by a food allergy. Another one had the allergy too but the reaction was more inward. HUGE HUGE difference in quality of life when we figured this out. My one kid would probably be in jail now if we hadn't unraveled this mystery. Good luck, OP.

NP, to PP above— could you expand on this? We have multiple food allergies along with behavioral issues and difficulty with emotional regulation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What are your fears about meds? Try to remember that we have pretty intense bias towards not intervening - we vastly underestimate the side effects of not medicating (which can be great) while worrying intensely about the potential side effects of medications. Your child’s sense of self worth is worth a whole lot and a potential side effect impacted by continued negative experiences with difficulty managing these things that may not be his fault. I know it’s tough. I struggled with it to. But may be worth considering what you’re worried about. Many of us find we wish we had done it sooner, most threads you’ll find on here you see parents sharing that

OP here - first, the fact that no one (among our therapists and pediatrician) is recommending medication, so it is mostly something other people seem to be doing and I would have to press for. Second, DC won't even do vitamins or cough syrup, so I imagine medication would be very difficult logistically, and forcing it may be its own trauma. Third, all the reasons other people hesitate - concern it is not needed and may interfere with development, potential side effects, having behavior worsen trying to find right med.

Wait, what? There's clearly something more going on here. Sensory issue, arfid, anxiety?

Huh? I think we all know a kid with severe enough behavioral issues to consider medication has a lot going on. OP hasn’t mentioned a diagnosis anyway. I assume her kid has one or several.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What are your fears about meds? Try to remember that we have pretty intense bias towards not intervening - we vastly underestimate the side effects of not medicating (which can be great) while worrying intensely about the potential side effects of medications. Your child’s sense of self worth is worth a whole lot and a potential side effect impacted by continued negative experiences with difficulty managing these things that may not be his fault. I know it’s tough. I struggled with it to. But may be worth considering what you’re worried about. Many of us find we wish we had done it sooner, most threads you’ll find on here you see parents sharing that

OP here - first, the fact that no one (among our therapists and pediatrician) is recommending medication, so it is mostly something other people seem to be doing and I would have to press for. Second, DC won't even do vitamins or cough syrup, so I imagine medication would be very difficult logistically, and forcing it may be its own trauma. Third, all the reasons other people hesitate - concern it is not needed and may interfere with development, potential side effects, having behavior worsen trying to find right med.

Wait, what? There's clearly something more going on here. Sensory issue, arfid, anxiety?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What are your fears about meds? Try to remember that we have pretty intense bias towards not intervening - we vastly underestimate the side effects of not medicating (which can be great) while worrying intensely about the potential side effects of medications. Your child’s sense of self worth is worth a whole lot and a potential side effect impacted by continued negative experiences with difficulty managing these things that may not be his fault. I know it’s tough. I struggled with it to. But may be worth considering what you’re worried about. Many of us find we wish we had done it sooner, most threads you’ll find on here you see parents sharing that

OP here - first, the fact that no one (among our therapists and pediatrician) is recommending medication, so it is mostly something other people seem to be doing and I would have to press for. Second, DC won't even do vitamins or cough syrup, so I imagine medication would be very difficult logistically, and forcing it may be its own trauma. Third, all the reasons other people hesitate - concern it is not needed and may interfere with development, potential side effects, having behavior worsen trying to find right med.

Makes sense - when you say formal eval do you mean neuropsych? Who have you seen that evaled for adhd? (Curious why the play therapist is saying a lot of characteristics but isn’t diagnosing for example since therapists can make an ADHD diagnosis. I would ask, does he meet the DSM criteria for the diagnosis? - has she given you a vanderbuilt assessment scale that you and the teacher could fill out? Has anyone? Those can be really helpful) agreed you obviously wouldn’t want to medicate for ADHD without a diagnosis. Sometimes I see people are seeing professionals that aren’t the ones that give these diagnoses and that’s why they aren’t getting them (OT, parent training coaches etc)

Anonymous wrote:
What are your fears about meds? Try to remember that we have pretty intense bias towards not intervening - we vastly underestimate the side effects of not medicating (which can be great) while worrying intensely about the potential side effects of medications. Your child’s sense of self worth is worth a whole lot and a potential side effect impacted by continued negative experiences with difficulty managing these things that may not be his fault. I know it’s tough. I struggled with it to. But may be worth considering what you’re worried about. Many of us find we wish we had done it sooner, most threads you’ll find on here you see parents sharing that

OP here - first, the fact that no one (among our therapists and pediatrician) is recommending medication, so it is mostly something other people seem to be doing and I would have to press for. Second, DC won't even do vitamins or cough syrup, so I imagine medication would be very difficult logistically, and forcing it may be its own trauma. Third, all the reasons other people hesitate - concern it is not needed and may interfere with development, potential side effects, having behavior worsen trying to find right med.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Because I don’t think those parents get what we were dealing with - the disruptive behavior. They mean “Larlo was so forgetful and couldn’t do long assignments!” I get it but my kid has both versions. The forgetting may mean he tries stimulants in HS but it is way, way less of an issue than the early behavioral stuff.

OP here - yeah, my kid has the disruptive behavior but it is not an everyday thing. More at the beginning of the school year when getting adjusted to a new routine, the end of the school year with summer anxiety, and maybe a couple outbursts in the middle. But it is heavily dependent on getting a teacher who is able to manage and we can't do summer camp at all.

Yeah my kid was like this, at worst around age 8-9, and outbursts improved without meds. We started trying meds in middle school but haven't found one yet as stimulants haven't worked at all. I'm starting to wonder if it isn't all just autism looking like ADHD, which is why classic ADHD meds are failing. But the kid is holding tight to their AuDHD diagnosis and the psychiatrist thinks we can keep trying different meds types and doses.

Yes. One of my kids had serious, serious behavioral issues caused by a food allergy. Another one had the allergy too but the reaction was more inward. HUGE HUGE difference in quality of life when we figured this out. My one kid would probably be in jail now if we hadn't unraveled this mystery. Good luck, OP.

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