We played man down the entire summer unintentionally with 9 guys because of politics, won every half and only trailed for 2 minutes the whole summer.

Also set a club record for shorthanded goals.

My DS team had 12 players and a dad coach and won everything.

Anonymous wrote:Agreed. 24 is not too many, though I would try to cap it there. IMO 22-24 is the best number. It also just doesn't take much to get to 22.

5 attack
5 defense
6 mid
2 lsm
2 fogo
2 goalie

Add a couple ssdm's, and you're at 24.

As the PP noted, having too tight of a roster can put a team in some peril if kids get gassed or there are injuries. Over 24 is a PIA for the coaches to manage equitably.

My DS team had 21 players and won everything

Anonymous wrote:What do the USA lacrosse numbers say?

Follow the goalie and fogo is great advice. Getting to Sundays as well. These are somewhat connected

Have senior in college this coming year that played on a high level club team that won a ton big time tournaments come Sunday and championship games it was empty fields. the only people left where the two teams playing in the championship games. Crabs IL NLF naptown my sons team won everything.

The only way for a roster of more than 24 to work is if the kids (and their parents) who are 24+ on the roster know where they stand and know they aren't playing as much as the rest of the team in competitive games. In my experience most coaches and clubs don't want to tell them that unfortunately - at least here in the DMV.

Agreed. 24 is not too many, though I would try to cap it there. IMO 22-24 is the best number. It also just doesn't take much to get to 22.

5 attack
5 defense
6 mid
2 lsm
2 fogo
2 goalie

Add a couple ssdm's, and you're at 24.

As the PP noted, having too tight of a roster can put a team in some peril if kids get gassed or there are injuries. Over 24 is a PIA for the coaches to manage equitably.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you avoid the bloated rosters? Seems like that's not going to change any time soon. So how do you navigate with that as a given?

Check out the roster sizes of the club program, often it's easily found information. Check out the roster size of the team year prior if it's already been formed. Ask vet parents on sideline if they're aware what the club/team has done. Watch a tournament that's relatively local (good investment of time if you can see how clubs/coaches operate).

Worst case listen at tryouts. Or if not gotten info by then, ask directly in response to invite selection, if you get one.

Yeah but the DMV teams are all huge except maybe Madlax. So what do you do then?

Find the best team where you can play period. Or beat out somebody in front of you is also an option. If you kill it they will NEVER leave a player on the bench if it brings them wins. As for Madlax I have maybe seen one or two players at most make it to the top team from DMV-ML, Orange-DCE, or Red-NL.

I have seen some move from the B to the A but you have to absolutely dominate the competition at B and stand out regularly as the best player on the field to make that jump.

Using Madlax as an example, it's much easier to make Capital from another team than it is DMV.

As for the roster sizes, they are out of control. 24 is way too many. With a backup goalie and FOGO, teams need 20. OP is completely right about teams that run three lines of middies. Parents need to start demanding more playing time and stop cutting checks when the roster is bloated. More specifically, parents need to be realistic about the lack of opportunities. The recruiting thread here shows how few boys are going to good lacrosse schools. There's no need to ride the bench at DCE to go nowhere in college ball. Much better to go down to a roster where your son can actually play.

Like OP, i have seen only one good dad coach. He was probably harder on his boy than the rest of the team. He was a good man who knew his son's limitations and worked hard to get as much out of him as everyone else.

One thing I haven't seen discussed openly are the absurd politics that go into these teams. While OP is right that there is usually a small chunk of players at the bottom of the roster who cannot hang, there are also usually a few kids who are better. Usually (read: no Dad coach in the way), those kids play more. For the rest, the boys tend to be relatively close but perceptions and playing time can vary wildly.

This is mostly a contra post to what the OP threw out there, which seemed pretty measured and informative.

He did not state he's only seen one good dad coach, but rather that's the best one/type his sons have had. In this case a former player, clear eyed, and then spoke about "they" (the group of them that have similar characteristics) several times and as your best bet. And if you have one that does it correctly, it has a lot of advantages (and caveats if he doesn't). YMMV on this, of course.

He also said 24 or less (less not being defined). With an emphasis that any/many more than that brings in the host of issues from PT to quality of play at the back end. 3rd line middies, 6th att or close d, rosters into the upper 20's or more. But if you're trying to do a summer of 4-5 tournaments and want to carry a roster of 20, with 4 of those guys doubled up at goalie and fogo, you've got 16 runners, tops. Good luck with that! IMO you're setting up the entire team to get roasted. 6 Middies having to play 3-4+ hours worth of games in a weekend on both ends of the field, getting torched on defense, taking away from what (they believe, anyway) their strengths are (offense with most?) and playing tired. All to look bad and possibly making others look bad on D/getting worse results. This doesn't even account for guys missing tournaments, getting nicked up or true injuries. It'd behoove most club teams to do what every non-club team does and have several ssdms/wings to handle those responsibilities and have a good system to make it fluid.

More than 24/25? Yes, becomes a problem. Not the least of which for the kids that ride more pine than not. And 3 straight middie lines? No bueno.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you avoid the bloated rosters? Seems like that's not going to change any time soon. So how do you navigate with that as a given?

Check out the roster sizes of the club program, often it's easily found information. Check out the roster size of the team year prior if it's already been formed. Ask vet parents on sideline if they're aware what the club/team has done. Watch a tournament that's relatively local (good investment of time if you can see how clubs/coaches operate).

Worst case listen at tryouts. Or if not gotten info by then, ask directly in response to invite selection, if you get one.

Yeah but the DMV teams are all huge except maybe Madlax. So what do you do then?

Find the best team where you can play period. Or beat out somebody in front of you is also an option. If you kill it they will NEVER leave a player on the bench if it brings them wins. As for Madlax I have maybe seen one or two players at most make it to the top team from DMV-ML, Orange-DCE, or Red-NL.

I have seen some move from the B to the A but you have to absolutely dominate the competition at B and stand out regularly as the best player on the field to make that jump.

Using Madlax as an example, it's much easier to make Capital from another team than it is DMV.

As for the roster sizes, they are out of control. 24 is way too many. With a backup goalie and FOGO, teams need 20. OP is completely right about teams that run three lines of middies. Parents need to start demanding more playing time and stop cutting checks when the roster is bloated. More specifically, parents need to be realistic about the lack of opportunities. The recruiting thread here shows how few boys are going to good lacrosse schools. There's no need to ride the bench at DCE to go nowhere in college ball. Much better to go down to a roster where your son can actually play.

Like OP, i have seen only one good dad coach. He was probably harder on his boy than the rest of the team. He was a good man who knew his son's limitations and worked hard to get as much out of him as everyone else.

One thing I haven't seen discussed openly are the absurd politics that go into these teams. While OP is right that there is usually a small chunk of players at the bottom of the roster who cannot hang, there are also usually a few kids who are better. Usually (read: no Dad coach in the way), those kids play more. For the rest, the boys tend to be relatively close but perceptions and playing time can vary wildly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you avoid the bloated rosters? Seems like that's not going to change any time soon. So how do you navigate with that as a given?

Check out the roster sizes of the club program, often it's easily found information. Check out the roster size of the team year prior if it's already been formed. Ask vet parents on sideline if they're aware what the club/team has done. Watch a tournament that's relatively local (good investment of time if you can see how clubs/coaches operate).

Worst case listen at tryouts. Or if not gotten info by then, ask directly in response to invite selection, if you get one.

Yeah but the DMV teams are all huge except maybe Madlax. So what do you do then?

Find the best team where you can play period. Or beat out somebody in front of you is also an option. If you kill it they will NEVER leave a player on the bench if it brings them wins. As for Madlax I have maybe seen one or two players at most make it to the top team from DMV-ML, Orange-DCE, or Red-NL.

I have seen some move from the B to the A but you have to absolutely dominate the competition at B and stand out regularly as the best player on the field to make that jump.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you avoid the bloated rosters? Seems like that's not going to change any time soon. So how do you navigate with that as a given?

Check out the roster sizes of the club program, often it's easily found information. Check out the roster size of the team year prior if it's already been formed. Ask vet parents on sideline if they're aware what the club/team has done. Watch a tournament that's relatively local (good investment of time if you can see how clubs/coaches operate).

Worst case listen at tryouts. Or if not gotten info by then, ask directly in response to invite selection, if you get one.

Yeah but the DMV teams are all huge except maybe Madlax. So what do you do then?

Find the best team where you can play period. Or beat out somebody in front of you is also an option. If you kill it they will NEVER leave a player on the bench if it brings them wins. As for Madlax I have maybe seen one or two players at most make it to the top team from DMV-ML, Orange-DCE, or Red-NL.

There are way too many examples of favoritism in youth sports. There's also a ton of envelopes being spread around. The idea the best play the most is not true.

The best players play. If you think your kid is losing playing time due to favoritism, it might be true, but he is also not one of the best players.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you avoid the bloated rosters? Seems like that's not going to change any time soon. So how do you navigate with that as a given?

Check out the roster sizes of the club program, often it's easily found information. Check out the roster size of the team year prior if it's already been formed. Ask vet parents on sideline if they're aware what the club/team has done. Watch a tournament that's relatively local (good investment of time if you can see how clubs/coaches operate).

Worst case listen at tryouts. Or if not gotten info by then, ask directly in response to invite selection, if you get one.

Yeah but the DMV teams are all huge except maybe Madlax. So what do you do then?

Find the best team where you can play period. Or beat out somebody in front of you is also an option. If you kill it they will NEVER leave a player on the bench if it brings them wins. As for Madlax I have maybe seen one or two players at most make it to the top team from DMV-ML, Orange-DCE, or Red-NL.

There are way too many examples of favoritism in youth sports. There's also a ton of envelopes being spread around. The idea the best play the most is not true.

How big are the envelopes, if you know? Might need to get in on this action.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you avoid the bloated rosters? Seems like that's not going to change any time soon. So how do you navigate with that as a given?

Check out the roster sizes of the club program, often it's easily found information. Check out the roster size of the team year prior if it's already been formed. Ask vet parents on sideline if they're aware what the club/team has done. Watch a tournament that's relatively local (good investment of time if you can see how clubs/coaches operate).

Worst case listen at tryouts. Or if not gotten info by then, ask directly in response to invite selection, if you get one.

Yeah but the DMV teams are all huge except maybe Madlax. So what do you do then?

Find the best team where you can play period. Or beat out somebody in front of you is also an option. If you kill it they will NEVER leave a player on the bench if it brings them wins. As for Madlax I have maybe seen one or two players at most make it to the top team from DMV-ML, Orange-DCE, or Red-NL.

There are way too many examples of favoritism in youth sports. There's also a ton of envelopes being spread around. The idea the best play the most is not true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you avoid the bloated rosters? Seems like that's not going to change any time soon. So how do you navigate with that as a given?

Check out the roster sizes of the club program, often it's easily found information. Check out the roster size of the team year prior if it's already been formed. Ask vet parents on sideline if they're aware what the club/team has done. Watch a tournament that's relatively local (good investment of time if you can see how clubs/coaches operate).

Worst case listen at tryouts. Or if not gotten info by then, ask directly in response to invite selection, if you get one.

Yeah but the DMV teams are all huge except maybe Madlax. So what do you do then?

Find the best team where you can play period. Or beat out somebody in front of you is also an option. If you kill it they will NEVER leave a player on the bench if it brings them wins. As for Madlax I have maybe seen one or two players at most make it to the top team from DMV-ML, Orange-DCE, or Red-NL.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you avoid the bloated rosters? Seems like that's not going to change any time soon. So how do you navigate with that as a given?

Check out the roster sizes of the club program, often it's easily found information. Check out the roster size of the team year prior if it's already been formed. Ask vet parents on sideline if they're aware what the club/team has done. Watch a tournament that's relatively local (good investment of time if you can see how clubs/coaches operate).

Worst case listen at tryouts. Or if not gotten info by then, ask directly in response to invite selection, if you get one.

Yeah but the DMV teams are all huge except maybe Madlax. So what do you do then?

Anonymous wrote:24 is not a realistic number. The kids get hurt, play other sports, and most importantly, in the season (which is summer now for high school) it is really really really hot. To the point that it is unsafe for at the very least the middies to play 3 games a day without enough depth on the team for everyone to get breaks so they can each play their best.

Cabell, any coach worth his salt can get 24-25 guys starting a tournament to be just fine. And likely with a couple fewer than that if need be.

You've been at this awhile. Raise your prices 5-10%. Create one more team, call them the crazy cats. You should understand that the amount of consternation and club jumping all of this entails isn't worth the hassle. Find another way.