Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do we have high stats no ECs boys keep popping up recently? So many.

Because they stay in their rooms and play video games.

This is absolutely NOT true! I’m the parent who posted a couple of days ago about my rising junior son with very high stats but not great EC’s. He also happens to hate video games.

My son is a very hardworking kid who is extremely conscientious about his school work.
I think it’s ridiculous that we live in a society that expects 14 and 15 year olds to have found their passion and to work on that passion all throughout high school to impress college admission officers.

I was an excellent student who had no idea what I wanted to do with my life at 15. I ended up getting a PhD in a STEM discipline from a T20 school and have a successful career. Of course that was about 30 years ago before all the competitive madness with college admissions.

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all - he is interested in science. When discussing college he IDed “marine biology” as a possible major. He has zero experience with marine bio other than he took AP bio this year and got a 5 on the exam. I encouraged him to do a two week marine bio program this summer and he wouldn’t do it. He has no motivation aside from doing well in school, which isn’t overly hard for him. This summer he is sleeping in, hanging out with friends at the beach, and golfing. I honestly don’t think he would start a club, or volunteer - he has no interest in spending his time that way and I don’t want to fight over it even if it means getting into a rice/wash U instead of a lower ranked school.

Desire for prestige is coming from him - when he was brainstorming a college list he said his first choice was MIT and then would like to either Penn or Brown. That isn’t realistic.

There is nothing inherently wrong with that approach to life, used to be the norm, and a happy, healthy high school kid's summer.
For a scientist, an advanced degree is more important than the undergraduate school. Give him some time, he will find his path.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, here's what a pricey college counselor would do for this kid - and yes ED1 to WashU:

Major: Undecided arts & sciences or Environmental Studies (not science)

The following for ECS:
- Club founder and president (native plant Org/club at school that rewilds areas with native plants) (11, 12)
- Organizer of local beach cleanup meetups (11, 12)
- Sport 1 (9, 10, 11, 12)
- Urban garden or botanic garden volunteer or instructor (11, 12)
- Sport 2 (9, 10, 11, 12)
- Putt-Putt job (12)
- Science Fair research (Research on iridescent plants)
- Botany podcaster YouTube channel
- At home greenhouse (woodworking done by applicant) and gardener planting 35+ varietals annually (10, 11, 12)
- Taught neighbor w/ learning disabilities how to read (improved 4 reading levels) (10, 11, 12)

Hobbies: cloud-watching (active member of Cloud Appreciation Society) and journaling would be the basis for a personal statement.

Club founder requires some social skills to get enough kids to sign up. Good idea if the kid is motivated enough for this. If he continues staying in his room, this will not happen.
Organizer of local beach cleanup meetups. Need some impact, e.g., media coverage.
What is cloud watching? lol this is another level higher than doddling ...
Can we do day dreaming instead?

At our school, anyone can "found" a club, with few members. I'm sure it doesn't really impact admissions but shows kids who at least try to be involved. I don't think you need impact for all ECs imo. Esp for high achieving boys who are held to a slightly lower standard. But sure, measurable impact (how much is picked up, how many times, how many volunteers) is good for the cleanups?

I think it's quite good. Like the tie in of beach and golf!
Cloud watching is a new one! Never heard of it. Definitely catches the eye.

I thought it was a parody of a pricey college counselor?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, here's what a pricey college counselor would do for this kid - and yes ED1 to WashU:

Major: Undecided arts & sciences or Environmental Studies (not science)

The following for ECS:
- Club founder and president (native plant Org/club at school that rewilds areas with native plants) (11, 12)
- Organizer of local beach cleanup meetups (11, 12)
- Sport 1 (9, 10, 11, 12)
- Urban garden or botanic garden volunteer or instructor (11, 12)
- Sport 2 (9, 10, 11, 12)
- Putt-Putt job (12)
- Science Fair research (Research on iridescent plants)
- Botany podcaster YouTube channel
- At home greenhouse (woodworking done by applicant) and gardener planting 35+ varietals annually (10, 11, 12)
- Taught neighbor w/ learning disabilities how to read (improved 4 reading levels) (10, 11, 12)

Hobbies: cloud-watching (active member of Cloud Appreciation Society) and journaling would be the basis for a personal statement.

Club founder requires some social skills to get enough kids to sign up. Good idea if the kid is motivated enough for this. If he continues staying in his room, this will not happen.
Organizer of local beach cleanup meetups. Need some impact, e.g., media coverage.
What is cloud watching? lol this is another level higher than doddling ...
Can we do day dreaming instead?

I'm the PP you are responding to. There's a science component to cloud watching.
Cloud Watching is big for NASA (there's a GLOBE app you can self-report on) and there are cloud gazing/mindfulness clubs on campus. It's kind of a growing thing.

You could probably build an entire common app profile around these weird interests: (1) NASA Globe cloud monitoring, (2) Cloud Appreciation Society, (3) being a volunteer with SKYWARN (national weather service), (4) Research for at home weather monitoring device, (5) NWS in person spotter training. (6) become a volunteer radio operator with the Amateur Radio Emergency Service and (7) start a weather club at school. Add in some in person volunteer /job at a local science center. The National Center for Atmospheric Research has summer internships too.

I've actually seen a variation of this profile before and they've done really well in T20 admissions.

George Mason

Anonymous wrote:Full pay boy. High performing suburban HS of a major city (Boston/DC/NY). No legacy.

Going into his junior year of HS. In the top ten of his class, may end up being valedictorian. He’s very smart, has no leadership or interesting ECs. Minor volunteering, 2 JV sports, not recruitable and may not even make varsity. Ship has sailed for ECs, they would be meaningless at this point and I would not expect joining a club would have any impact on his results.

He is really smart, and likely would do fine at an Ivy, but he won’t get in as he doesn’t stand out at all. Where can a kid with high test scores and top of class at a strong suburban public get into that is still prestigious? What’s his best bet for ED? Could he possibly get into a rice or Cornell?

He has multiple 5s on APs and will have 1500+ on SAT (if he doesn’t get there initially, he will be tutored).

Assuming he can test better than 1500, consider Oxbridge. They don't care about leadership or ECs. He'll need to take a specialized subject exam, though, and do really well on them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, here's what a pricey college counselor would do for this kid - and yes ED1 to WashU:

Major: Undecided arts & sciences or Environmental Studies (not science)

The following for ECS:
- Club founder and president (native plant Org/club at school that rewilds areas with native plants) (11, 12)
- Organizer of local beach cleanup meetups (11, 12)
- Sport 1 (9, 10, 11, 12)
- Urban garden or botanic garden volunteer or instructor (11, 12)
- Sport 2 (9, 10, 11, 12)
- Putt-Putt job (12)
- Science Fair research (Research on iridescent plants)
- Botany podcaster YouTube channel
- At home greenhouse (woodworking done by applicant) and gardener planting 35+ varietals annually (10, 11, 12)
- Taught neighbor w/ learning disabilities how to read (improved 4 reading levels) (10, 11, 12)

Hobbies: cloud-watching (active member of Cloud Appreciation Society) and journaling would be the basis for a personal statement.

Club founder requires some social skills to get enough kids to sign up. Good idea if the kid is motivated enough for this. If he continues staying in his room, this will not happen.
Organizer of local beach cleanup meetups. Need some impact, e.g., media coverage.
What is cloud watching? lol this is another level higher than doddling ...
Can we do day dreaming instead?

At our school, anyone can "found" a club, with few members. I'm sure it doesn't really impact admissions but shows kids who at least try to be involved. I don't think you need impact for all ECs imo. Esp for high achieving boys who are held to a slightly lower standard. But sure, measurable impact (how much is picked up, how many times, how many volunteers) is good for the cleanups?

I think it's quite good. Like the tie in of beach and golf!
Cloud watching is a new one! Never heard of it. Definitely catches the eye.

Canadian universities, UK universities, state universities.

Anonymous wrote:So, here's what a pricey college counselor would do for this kid - and yes ED1 to WashU:

Major: Undecided arts & sciences or Environmental Studies (not science)

The following for ECS:
- Club founder and president (native plant Org/club at school that rewilds areas with native plants) (11, 12)
- Organizer of local beach cleanup meetups (11, 12)
- Sport 1 (9, 10, 11, 12)
- Urban garden or botanic garden volunteer or instructor (11, 12)
- Sport 2 (9, 10, 11, 12)
- Putt-Putt job (12)
- Science Fair research (Research on iridescent plants)
- Botany podcaster YouTube channel
- At home greenhouse (woodworking done by applicant) and gardener planting 35+ varietals annually (10, 11, 12)
- Taught neighbor w/ learning disabilities how to read (improved 4 reading levels) (10, 11, 12)

Hobbies: cloud-watching (active member of Cloud Appreciation Society) and journaling would be the basis for a personal statement.

Club founder requires some social skills to get enough kids to sign up. Good idea if the kid is motivated enough for this. If he continues staying in his room, this will not happen.
Organizer of local beach cleanup meetups. Need some impact, e.g., media coverage.
What is cloud watching? lol this is another level higher than doddling ...
Can we do day dreaming instead?

Don't major in marine bio. It's competitive because everyone wants to do it and there are few jobs.

UChicago ED is a good bet but for god sakes get him a job and a low impact volunteer gig for appearances.

So, here's what a pricey college counselor would do for this kid - and yes ED1 to WashU:

Major: Undecided arts & sciences or Environmental Studies (not science)

The following for ECS:
- Club founder and president (native plant Org/club at school that rewilds areas with native plants) (11, 12)
- Organizer of local beach cleanup meetups (11, 12)
- Sport 1 (9, 10, 11, 12)
- Urban garden or botanic garden volunteer or instructor (11, 12)
- Sport 2 (9, 10, 11, 12)
- Putt-Putt job (12)
- Science Fair research (Research on iridescent plants)
- Botany podcaster YouTube channel
- At home greenhouse (woodworking done by applicant) and gardener planting 35+ varietals annually (10, 11, 12)
- Taught neighbor w/ learning disabilities how to read (improved 4 reading levels) (10, 11, 12)

Hobbies: cloud-watching (active member of Cloud Appreciation Society) and journaling would be the basis for a personal statement.

UF would be a good choice. Top marine biology program but it’s also a strong in other areas too, like engineering.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full pay boy. High performing suburban HS of a major city (Boston/DC/NY). No legacy.

Going into his junior year of HS. In the top ten of his class, may end up being valedictorian. He’s very smart, has no leadership or interesting ECs. Minor volunteering, 2 JV sports, not recruitable and may not even make varsity. Ship has sailed for ECs, they would be meaningless at this point and I would not expect joining a club would have any impact on his results.

He is really smart, and likely would do fine at an Ivy, but he won’t get in as he doesn’t stand out at all. Where can a kid with high test scores and top of class at a strong suburban public get into that is still prestigious? What’s his best bet for ED? Could he possibly get into a rice or Cornell?

He has multiple 5s on APs and will have 1500+ on SAT (if he doesn’t get there initially, he will be tutored).

Maybe ECs might not make a difference in college admissions, but they could still be very important for personal growth. He's going to learn differently from debate/Model UN/etc. than from classwork.

Debate Model UN clubs may be diffficult to join now. They are quite competitive.

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all - he is interested in science. When discussing college he IDed “marine biology” as a possible major. He has zero experience with marine bio other than he took AP bio this year and got a 5 on the exam. I encouraged him to do a two week marine bio program this summer and he wouldn’t do it. He has no motivation aside from doing well in school, which isn’t overly hard for him. This summer he is sleeping in, hanging out with friends at the beach, and golfing. I honestly don’t think he would start a club, or volunteer - he has no interest in spending his time that way and I don’t want to fight over it even if it means getting into a rice/wash U instead of a lower ranked school.

Desire for prestige is coming from him - when he was brainstorming a college list he said his first choice was MIT and then would like to either Penn or Brown. That isn’t realistic.

That is simply stupid. Don't limit school choices because he "thinks" he may want to major in MB. Bio major jobs are hard to come by. MB major schools are limited and jobs are even harder to come by.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full pay boy. High performing suburban HS of a major city (Boston/DC/NY). No legacy.

Going into his junior year of HS. In the top ten of his class, may end up being valedictorian. He’s very smart, has no leadership or interesting ECs. Minor volunteering, 2 JV sports, not recruitable and may not even make varsity. Ship has sailed for ECs, they would be meaningless at this point and I would not expect joining a club would have any impact on his results.

He is really smart, and likely would do fine at an Ivy, but he won’t get in as he doesn’t stand out at all. Where can a kid with high test scores and top of class at a strong suburban public get into that is still prestigious? What’s his best bet for ED? Could he possibly get into a rice or Cornell?

He has multiple 5s on APs and will have 1500+ on SAT (if he doesn’t get there initially, he will be tutored).

What major? Tell us a bit more about him, so folks can tailor interests. Parents (and some professionals) here have good suggestions.
Are you in-state New York? Would he apply to any contract colleges at Cornell?

For kids like this, our private CCO suggests the following for ED (full pay) - depending on major - but ED is key:
U Chicago
WashU
Rice

At a minimum, have him start working/volunteering this summer.
Places like: library, summer camps, food banks, urban gardens, sports camps or programs.

This is really good advice. Go visit those three schools (or schools in that general cluster, but those are the three I would have suggested starting with as well) and see where he feels the best connection and ED there. If you know you'll be full-pay, ED-ing at his top choice is the way to go.

I agree with this. My son didn't fully understand what was required but became very focused and did very well his junior year after touring schools during the summer. For us, it was more of a rigor and grades issue, but going to the schools in person, experiencing the campus, talking to students and listening to the expectations for admission can do wonders. If this isn't possible, consider doing it online with the admissions office. It might also get him away from thinking about prestige and more about fit.