Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the athlete divide that big of a deal for some kids? Parents? Why?

Keep in mind that from an admissions standpoint, it is unwise for a non-athlete, non-first gen student to apply ED — in particular, Amherst, Williams, and Bowdoin. Midd is still good ED, as is Wes.

So regardless of how you feel about an athlete divide socially, there is a pronounced athlete divide in admissions — where athletes are accepted ED.

Use your ED ticket somewhere where it will actually help….

I never understand this take. If you like a school enough to want to ED there, who cares if ED doesn’t give a boost? And why would you want to ED somewhere else where ED doesn’t give a boost if that second school isn’t one you’d choose over the first school? You just risk getting in ED at the second school and committing to attend without even knowing if you could have gotten into your actual first choice.

ED to your first choice school or don’t ED anywhere.

Time for you to learn game theory. Don’t play the game in this era of hyper competitive admissions and you are more likely to lose by not getting into your first, second, third, or fourth choice, for that matter. But if you are cool with a safety school outcome, have at it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the athlete divide that big of a deal for some kids? Parents? Why?

Keep in mind that from an admissions standpoint, it is unwise for a non-athlete, non-first gen student to apply ED — in particular, Amherst, Williams, and Bowdoin. Midd is still good ED, as is Wes.

So regardless of how you feel about an athlete divide socially, there is a pronounced athlete divide in admissions — where athletes are accepted ED.

Use your ED ticket somewhere where it will actually help….

I never understand this take. If you like a school enough to want to ED there, who cares if ED doesn’t give a boost? And why would you want to ED somewhere else where ED doesn’t give a boost if that second school isn’t one you’d choose over the first school? You just risk getting in ED at the second school and committing to attend without even knowing if you could have gotten into your actual first choice.

ED to your first choice school or don’t ED anywhere.

Anonymous wrote:Is the athlete divide that big of a deal for some kids? Parents? Why?

Keep in mind that from an admissions standpoint, it is unwise for a non-athlete, non-first gen student to apply ED — in particular, Amherst, Williams, and Bowdoin. Midd is still good ED, as is Wes.

So regardless of how you feel about an athlete divide socially, there is a pronounced athlete divide in admissions — where athletes are accepted ED.

Use your ED ticket somewhere where it will actually help….

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the athlete divide that big of a deal for some kids? Parents? Why?

It’s can make a campus feel cliquey. Hard to break into those grind groups as you don’t have the shared experience of the sport, hours of practice and travel. Some nescacs it feel like over half the class is on a team.

And the dirty little secret is that the majority of domestic white students at some of these schools are athletes. Kind of a perverse affirmative action for whites (while white non-athletes have almost no chance of getting in).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rising jr is interested in small liberal arts colleges. Obviously fit is important and so we need to visit. But there are so many -- how do we begin narrowing it down to a reasonable list? His preferences: no large divide between athletes and everyone else, leaning liberal without constant emphasis on identity politics, and students leaning more toward PhD programs than finance/wall street.

Avoid NESCAC due to high athlete percentages.
Carleton sounds about right.

Do not avoid NESCAC, these are wonderful LACs. Look at your school's Naviance or Scoir data and see what looks likely. Then visit a few to see how they feel and talk to the tour guide about athlete/student divide. It's not a big deal at many schools. More of an issue on DCUM.

+1

The whole Athlete/NARP divide is a DCUM reality, not a campus reality. My athlete student has a big friend group which includes many non-athlete. They hang out together, they come to visit during breaks, overall pretty normal. Athletes do spend a lot of social time with their teamamtres but people here on DCUM play things like they are two different worlds and they aren't.

Completely agree. DS is not an athlete but his best friend, as well as many in his friend group, are D1 athletes. His experience is that the divide is a made up construct.

D1 schools have a lower athlete percentage. We are talking about D3 and, in particular, NESCAC.

Anonymous wrote:Is the athlete divide that big of a deal for some kids? Parents? Why?

It’s can make a campus feel cliquey. Hard to break into those grind groups as you don’t have the shared experience of the sport, hours of practice and travel. Some nescacs it feel like over half the class is on a team.

Before thinking about any college you want to go, have your kid done some sort of self evaluation? what kind of college he or she could get in? Ranking in class, GPA, SAT, ECs will tell you where you probably end up, of course, you could be surprised if lucky.

Is the athlete divide that big of a deal for some kids? Parents? Why?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rising jr is interested in small liberal arts colleges. Obviously fit is important and so we need to visit. But there are so many -- how do we begin narrowing it down to a reasonable list? His preferences: no large divide between athletes and everyone else, leaning liberal without constant emphasis on identity politics, and students leaning more toward PhD programs than finance/wall street.

Avoid NESCAC due to high athlete percentages.
Carleton sounds about right.

Agree that Carleton sounds like a good fit

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Macalester, Kenyon

LOL !!! No !

OP wants schools which "lean liberal without constant emphasis on identity politics" ; Macalester College and Kenyon College are two of the most liberal colleges in the nation as they make Haverford College's identity politics look reasonable.

Well, the more “conservative” LACs have huge athlete/non-athlete divides.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a form of general perspective, Hamilton and Amherst, along with a few other LACs, appear in this Princeton Review survey-based site, "Their Students Love These Colleges":

Most Loved Colleges | The Princeton Review https://share.google/2DyGhpxh1WMoUXXR6

How does one measure “love college”

The ranking is based "on how strongly students agree or disagree with the statement, 'I am satisfied with my school.'"

Anonymous wrote:As a form of general perspective, Hamilton and Amherst, along with a few other LACs, appear in this Princeton Review survey-based site, "Their Students Love These Colleges":

Most Loved Colleges | The Princeton Review https://share.google/2DyGhpxh1WMoUXXR6

How does one measure “love college”

As a form of general perspective, Hamilton and Amherst, along with a few other LACs, appear in this Princeton Review survey-based site, "Their Students Love These Colleges":

Most Loved Colleges | The Princeton Review https://share.google/2DyGhpxh1WMoUXXR6

Aside demo the factors you noted, OP, there’s so much more to a LAC’s school’s culture.

Some schools are warmer more social than others. Some are known as sweatshops. (Looking at you Swat). Some have more school traditions and are more campus-based. Others are more cosmopolitan, part of a broader multi-college community. Swat, for example, has a partnership that allows students to take courses at Penn, Haverford, and Bryn Mawr. What are the dynamics between professors and students? What kind of research opportunities? (Depending on field can matter a lot for PhD candidates). Arts/culture? Access to whatever form of entertainment/relaxation that’s important to your student?

The only way your student will get a sense of the culture is to visit campuses and talk to students or recent grads.it’s worthwhile to figure it out. A fulfilling college experience is so different than one where you’re gritting your teeth to just get through. While transfers are always possible they can be disruptive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the above list, Bates and Vassar are the most liberal (most liberal student body), while Colgate and Williams offer a more balanced community.

Amherst & Middlebury are also very liberal communities.

Williams is an extremely liberal student body. I don’t know how people could reason otherwise.

Everything is relative; and relative to Bates & Vassar, Williams College is more balanced.

They're really about the same.