Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They hired him as a hybrid position (singular) of maintenance/counselor. They are trying to have him work maintenance 7:30-4 and then 5-10:30 as a counselor (presumably relieving the fulltime counselors). Yeah. Not cool.

No way, that's not reasonable.

+1 that is 2 jobs being paid as one, neither of which should be considered exempt, so he should be getting minimum wage plus overtime. How are they getting away with paying $400 a week? Is that schedule typical or a one-off. How many days off does he get?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Um, this is normal for a sleep away camp? I worked at one throughout college. Great experience. If he doesn’t want to do it then don’t have him go. What did he think when he got a job as a counselor? Did he ever go as a camper?

Agree, we were with campers from wakeup between 7 and 8 to bedtime between 8 and 9, so normally a 13-14 hour day. and we got 1 hour off a day and one 6-hour long break per week and every other Saturday off. And got paid NOTHING because room and board was technically included.

I don't mean literally nothing, I mean it felt like nothing. Less than minimum wage, definitely.

Anonymous wrote:Um, this is normal for a sleep away camp? I worked at one throughout college. Great experience. If he doesn’t want to do it then don’t have him go. What did he think when he got a job as a counselor? Did he ever go as a camper?

Agree, we were with campers from wakeup between 7 and 8 to bedtime between 8 and 9, so normally a 13-14 hour day. and we got 1 hour off a day and one 6-hour long break per week and every other Saturday off. And got paid NOTHING because room and board was technically included.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you should call MD’s Wage and Hour office tomorrow for advice. Most employers in MD mist pay at least $15/hr for employees 18+. There is no exemption for religious groups.

However there is an exemption from the minimum wage for non office workers at organized camps. I couldn’t quickly find the pay for those exempted but it seems odd they would make less than the Fed minimum wage which $6/hr is. Your son would also be eligible for OT for hours over 40 making his hourly rate much less than $6 if he only receives $400 a week.

https://www.labor.maryland.gov/labor/wages/wagehrfacts.shtml

I assume he's getting room and board. Doesn't that impact the wage calculations?

“However there is an exemption from the minimum wage for non office workers at organized camps.”

Anonymous wrote:OP you should call MD’s Wage and Hour office tomorrow for advice. Most employers in MD mist pay at least $15/hr for employees 18+. There is no exemption for religious groups.

However there is an exemption from the minimum wage for non office workers at organized camps. I couldn’t quickly find the pay for those exempted but it seems odd they would make less than the Fed minimum wage which $6/hr is. Your son would also be eligible for OT for hours over 40 making his hourly rate much less than $6 if he only receives $400 a week.

https://www.labor.maryland.gov/labor/wages/wagehrfacts.shtml

I assume he's getting room and board. Doesn't that impact the wage calculations?

Anonymous wrote:Even an au-pair agency has to follow law against working more than certain hours, why not camp?

There are carve outs for camps since they are a unique thing.

I am 45 and went to and worked at a summer camp all through college with a core group of friends that I still have a group text thread with. We always comment what a nightmare running a camp with gen z counselors would be.

Even an au-pair agency has to follow law against working more than certain hours, why not camp?

Not for the same pay, nope.

Anonymous wrote:OP you should call MD’s Wage and Hour office tomorrow for advice. Most employers in MD mist pay at least $15/hr for employees 18+. There is no exemption for religious groups.

However there is an exemption from the minimum wage for non office workers at organized camps. I couldn’t quickly find the pay for those exempted but it seems odd they would make less than the Fed minimum wage which $6/hr is. Your son would also be eligible for OT for hours over 40 making his hourly rate much less than $6 if he only receives $400 a week.

https://www.labor.maryland.gov/labor/wages/wagehrfacts.shtml

Didn't min wage go up recently?

Anonymous wrote:Minimum wage doesnt count for positions like this. It’s considered a stipend not a living wage.
I think the hours are somewhat normal. My kid did sleep away camp and the cabin counselors are on duty from when they woke up until they went to bed.

you missed the point that he is being asked to work a full day as a maintenance worker (think hard labor, landscaping, cleaning bathrooms, etc.) and then being asked to work a second evening shift providing oversight camp counseling to children. this situation is unusual, suspect, and exploitative. I was a camp counselor and the all day job included lots of down time where the kids are doing activities, taking naps, writing letters, having meals. Yes, you're always there providing oversight but you're not painting and scrubbing and cutting grass.

Anonymous wrote:I don't think the hours in themselves are that odd for a camp. I worked in the health unit of a camp years ago and we routinely had only 6 hours for sleep. I came home sick with bronchitis, fwiw. The pay however does strike me as low, I made $250 per week 20 years ago plus all meals.

I think the odd part is doing maintenance all day, which can be heavy labor in the heat and sun, and then more work after. That doesn't sound normal. Being a camp counselor has breaks built in and isn't as strenuous.

Minimum wage doesnt count for positions like this. It’s considered a stipend not a living wage.
I think the hours are somewhat normal. My kid did sleep away camp and the cabin counselors are on duty from when they woke up until they went to bed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never heard of camp counsellors who only work 8 hours and are off the other 16. If they changed what they hired him to do, then that is the issue but most camp counsellors work the camp sessions. I haven’t heard of any that have three full and separate shifts of counsellors. And that includes non religious camps.

I know lots of people working at summer camps. While many work more than 40 hours per week, they certainly all have off-duty hours each day. I'm not sure what sort of camps you're dealing with, but that sounds very, very strange.

And I am not sure what sort of camps you are dealing with! My teens all worked at camps for multiple summers and they seemed like pretty standard camps. Yours were much richer ones than mine if they have 3 full sets of everyone. Where do they keep them all to have three full rotating shifts? They would have two full rotations of everyone off at any given time. That is a lot of extra dorms and places to be while the other shifts are working. I would think the camp Counsellors would get bored being at camp with nothing to do for 16 hours a day.

Anonymous wrote:I have never heard of camp counsellors who only work 8 hours and are off the other 16. If they changed what they hired him to do, then that is the issue but most camp counsellors work the camp sessions. I haven’t heard of any that have three full and separate shifts of counsellors. And that includes non religious camps.

I know lots of people working at summer camps. While many work more than 40 hours per week, they certainly all have off-duty hours each day. I'm not sure what sort of camps you're dealing with, but that sounds very, very strange.