Anonymous wrote:OP wants data about “student quality.” What exactly is that?

I don’t recall any crisis about graduation rates suffering in the COVID era.

It seems like a lot of anecdotal info is in this thread, but there hasn’t been any data that points to college student success suffering.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since these institutions have rushed back to test required and asserted that low sat scores are to blame for lower student quality, where’s the data? Furthermore, where are their peers who are still test optionals getting their students? Since changing back, all I’ve seen are news articles complaining about the low student quality and that the kids can’t even read these days!

Because those news articles are complaining about low student quality in colleges that remain test optional. Columbia in particular.

The test required colleges now do not complain low student quality anymore. Show me any article that complains low student quality in test required colleges since that reinstated test requirement? None. There is none!

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/13/opinion/college-university-remote-pandemic.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since these institutions have rushed back to test required and asserted that low sat scores are to blame for lower student quality, where’s the data? Furthermore, where are their peers who are still test optionals getting their students? Since changing back, all I’ve seen are news articles complaining about the low student quality and that the kids can’t even read these days!

Because those news articles are complaining about low student quality in colleges that remain test optional. Columbia in particular.

The test required colleges now do not complain low student quality anymore. Show me any article that complains low student quality in test required colleges since that reinstated test requirement? None. There is none!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It mostly doesn’t exist because test scores aren’t really the issue: it’s a generation without standards. The SAT is a joke and so are most state exams these days.

The only thing giving me hope still is the popularization of the IB curriculum.

I teach my subject in both AP and IB at an international school.

ChatGPT has destroyed any credibility the IB DP had. For the Extended Essay, the IBO has no official stance on how much AI is too much, and leaves it up to schools, but...there's nothing schools can do to control this, in any case. This year, I know that the majority, if not all, of the kids used AI to generate their EE outline, and most are using AI to "help" write the actual essay. AI tells them which sources to use, and where and how to use them, and rephrasing to evade AI detection at a super high rate is easy. The EE is a joke.

For my subject, which is DP English Lang & Lit and DP Lit, roughly half of the grade is comprised of "internal assessments", such as the IO (oral), and kids are using AI to structure this as well: most of the L&L kids didn't read any of the books or poetry this year, but were still able to get passing IO scores using AI, and there is nothing teachers can do about it. The same will be true for their Higher Level Essays. And this is true for internal assessments for multiple other DP subjects.

All of the teachers in my department have concluded that the internal assessments for our subject, as well as the Extended Essay, are now widely completed via AI. I have no idea what the IBO will do, but they are going to have to restructure the IB assessments to only timed exams in which the kids do not know the topic ahead of time, like the AP exams.

5 years ago, we all thought the AP was on the wane. AI has turned this on its head. My AP Lang kids were also not great at reading (and used AI to "help" them read assignments), but their AP score was comprised of three timed papers in the exam hall at the end of the year and they knew this, so we ramped up the amount of practice timed writing in class all year to prepare. The AP kids are also crippled by the fact that AI allows them to avoid actually reading any novel-length text, but they still got more out of the year than my Year 1 or Year 2 DP kids.

Honestly, I'm almost in a state of existential despair over what AI has done to education. Some of my colleagues are in denial, but most see the truth. Most kids do not read books/novels anymore, and they don't even actively read source articles online anymore either: AI does it all.

Anyway, the IB DP assessment structure is going to have to change radically, and fast, to remain relevant.

Sorry.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Data lags by at least two years usually. Most of these schools only just switched back for this cycle and the freshman class hasn’t even arrived on campus yet. Give it a minute, maybe.

Seriously. What a dumb question. The irony.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since these institutions have rushed back to test required and asserted that low sat scores are to blame for lower student quality, where’s the data? Furthermore, where are their peers who are still test optionals getting their students? Since changing back, all I’ve seen are news articles complaining about the low student quality and that the kids can’t even read these days!

There are so many studies already you just want to ignore them. When the new data is out, you will continue ignoring them. It’s NOT going back!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It mostly doesn’t exist because test scores aren’t really the issue: it’s a generation without standards. The SAT is a joke and so are most state exams these days.

The only thing giving me hope still is the popularization of the IB curriculum.

I teach my subject in both AP and IB at an international school.

ChatGPT has destroyed any credibility the IB DP had. For the Extended Essay, the IBO has no official stance on how much AI is too much, and leaves it up to schools, but...there's nothing schools can do to control this, in any case. This year, I know that the majority, if not all, of the kids used AI to generate their EE outline, and most are using AI to "help" write the actual essay. AI tells them which sources to use, and where and how to use them, and rephrasing to evade AI detection at a super high rate is easy. The EE is a joke.

For my subject, which is DP English Lang & Lit and DP Lit, roughly half of the grade is comprised of "internal assessments", such as the IO (oral), and kids are using AI to structure this as well: most of the L&L kids didn't read any of the books or poetry this year, but were still able to get passing IO scores using AI, and there is nothing teachers can do about it. The same will be true for their Higher Level Essays. And this is true for internal assessments for multiple other DP subjects.

All of the teachers in my department have concluded that the internal assessments for our subject, as well as the Extended Essay, are now widely completed via AI. I have no idea what the IBO will do, but they are going to have to restructure the IB assessments to only timed exams in which the kids do not know the topic ahead of time, like the AP exams.

5 years ago, we all thought the AP was on the wane. AI has turned this on its head. My AP Lang kids were also not great at reading (and used AI to "help" them read assignments), but their AP score was comprised of three timed papers in the exam hall at the end of the year and they knew this, so we ramped up the amount of practice timed writing in class all year to prepare. The AP kids are also crippled by the fact that AI allows them to avoid actually reading any novel-length text, but they still got more out of the year than my Year 1 or Year 2 DP kids.

Honestly, I'm almost in a state of existential despair over what AI has done to education. Some of my colleagues are in denial, but most see the truth. Most kids do not read books/novels anymore, and they don't even actively read source articles online anymore either: AI does it all.

Anyway, the IB DP assessment structure is going to have to change radically, and fast, to remain relevant.

Sorry.

Anonymous wrote:It mostly doesn’t exist because test scores aren’t really the issue: it’s a generation without standards. The SAT is a joke and so are most state exams these days.

The only thing giving me hope still is the popularization of the IB curriculum.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since these institutions have rushed back to test required and asserted that low sat scores are to blame for lower student quality, where’s the data? Furthermore, where are their peers who are still test optionals getting their students? Since changing back, all I’ve seen are news articles complaining about the low student quality and that the kids can’t even read these days!

Because those news articles are complaining about low student quality in colleges that remain test optional. Columbia in particular.

The test required colleges now do not complain low student quality anymore. Show me any article that complains low student quality in test required colleges since that reinstated test requirement? None. There is none!

Huh? The crimson mentions habitually about the lower student quality. Did we all just forget the article on them needing REMEDIAL coursework.

Harvard's remedial math class began at a time when they reinstated test requirement only several months ago. The remedial math class is a remedy for the students from test optional era.

They created a course for students who will be pass intro math courses? That makes absolutely no sense.

Anonymous wrote:It mostly doesn’t exist because test scores aren’t really the issue: it’s a generation without standards. The SAT is a joke and so are most state exams these days.

The only thing giving me hope still is the popularization of the IB curriculum.

Anonymous wrote:Data lags by at least two years usually. Most of these schools only just switched back for this cycle and the freshman class hasn’t even arrived on campus yet. Give it a minute, maybe.

Anonymous wrote:Since these institutions have rushed back to test required and asserted that low sat scores are to blame for lower student quality, where’s the data? Furthermore, where are their peers who are still test optionals getting their students? Since changing back, all I’ve seen are news articles complaining about the low student quality and that the kids can’t even read these days!