Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have never done life jackets for active swimming but we were just at the beach and I was surprised how many I saw. The ocean is a different beast. If I had this to do over with my kids I think I would do life jackets in the ocean until they were able to pass our pool’s swim test — for our kids that’s 6/7, but they’re great swimmers.

This is really dumber because people die in freshwater at a vastly greater rate. I grew up in the south and have a pool, I don’t think bodies of water are inherently dangerous with the proper precautions. In lakes, that includes a life jacket at almost all times. Even as an adult I use one.

The ocean is inherently dangerous.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just thinking about this because my sister's kids, age 11 and 9 wear them at the beach. I have a 9 year old who has never worn a life vest except a few occasions on a boat. He learned to swim in a pool at age 4/5. We started going to the beach around that time and until last year was in arms reach of an adult while in the ocean. Last year and this year he goes in on his own with and adult watching (and lifeguards on duty).

It seems like anxiety or lazy parenting to me.

I wouldn't call it lazy parenting, but I do think those ages are old enough to make sure your kids are good swimmers. If your sister's kids are good swimmers, still requiring them to wear vests at a normal, guarded beach (not one with known rip tides etc) does seem a bit like overkill to me. If they aren't good swimmers, though, I could understand it. I'd work on the swimming skills in that case.

I think it really depends on the particular beach and conditions. There are many with an undertow, riptides or big waves that are unsafe for even stronger kid swimmers. Adults who are familiar with the currents and who are strong swimmers may be fine, but that's a lot to expect for a 9 yo.

I sort of agree but also think it's a good time in life to learn this awareness which you never will with a vest. If others are out in the waves, your child should be able to do so as well. In truly unsafe conditions, no one goes in the water. If it's safe to go in, its safe to learn how to do so without a vest imo.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just thinking about this because my sister's kids, age 11 and 9 wear them at the beach. I have a 9 year old who has never worn a life vest except a few occasions on a boat. He learned to swim in a pool at age 4/5. We started going to the beach around that time and until last year was in arms reach of an adult while in the ocean. Last year and this year he goes in on his own with and adult watching (and lifeguards on duty).

It seems like anxiety or lazy parenting to me.

I wouldn't call it lazy parenting, but I do think those ages are old enough to make sure your kids are good swimmers. If your sister's kids are good swimmers, still requiring them to wear vests at a normal, guarded beach (not one with known rip tides etc) does seem a bit like overkill to me. If they aren't good swimmers, though, I could understand it. I'd work on the swimming skills in that case.

I think it really depends on the particular beach and conditions. There are many with an undertow, riptides or big waves that are unsafe for even stronger kid swimmers. Adults who are familiar with the currents and who are strong swimmers may be fine, but that's a lot to expect for a 9 yo.

Anonymous wrote:I was just thinking about this because my sister's kids, age 11 and 9 wear them at the beach. I have a 9 year old who has never worn a life vest except a few occasions on a boat. He learned to swim in a pool at age 4/5. We started going to the beach around that time and until last year was in arms reach of an adult while in the ocean. Last year and this year he goes in on his own with and adult watching (and lifeguards on duty).

It seems like anxiety or lazy parenting to me.

I wouldn't call it lazy parenting, but I do think those ages are old enough to make sure your kids are good swimmers. If your sister's kids are good swimmers, still requiring them to wear vests at a normal, guarded beach (not one with known rip tides etc) does seem a bit like overkill to me. If they aren't good swimmers, though, I could understand it. I'd work on the swimming skills in that case.

Anonymous wrote:These posts always baffle me because everyone here seems so cautious around water, but then in real life I rarely see kids over 5 in life jackets, including at the beach or a lake. At our local pool most parents are allowing their kids to wander unsupervised starting around age 6 assuming they’re generally competent swimmers. And at the lake my entire extended family lets the kids swim off the dock without life jackets starting around the same age.

Is this another case of DCUM is not real life? Or am I surrounded by people in the minority about water safety?

So I'm the PP. I'd fall into your description I guess. If the kids are competent swimmers, meaning they can tread water and swim a couple laps without touching the ground or hanging on to the side of the wall, then they can swim in a community or municipal type pool (with rules, lifeguards, etc) "independently". They don't need an attentive adult nearby, and they don't need the life jacket.

The life jacket is for when they *aren't* competent swimmers AND when you can't count on an attentive adult (in safe, known waters)

OR

for even competent swimmers, in unknown or dangerous or unpredictable waters..

Your example of family swimming off the dock in a lake would be fairly predictable waters IMO. If my kids were competent swimmers, they would be swimming in that lake as long as a responsible adult was around, or even some responsible teens. But the key is that you know the kids are competent swimmers and could tread water/float/yell for help if they needed to for some reason.

If I had a non-swimming 4-year-old at your family's lake house, she would be wearing a life vest on the dock, especially if it was a social event and she wanted to run around with her cousins. If she's sitting on the side of the dock with me, and I *know* I am attentive and aware of her, she could take off her vest. But that's the most dangerous of all water situations. Child can't swim, social event, distracted parents each think the other one is watching the kid, and not a professional pool with life guards on duty and good lines of sight. This is the best situation for a life vest on non swimmers.

Being able to pass a typical swimming pool swim test for using the diving board/deep end is a good gauge. Being able to easily swim the length of a pool on your front one way (crawl, side stroke or breast stroke but NOT doggy paddle) and on your back the other way, and then (without touching the floor or side of the pool) tread water and keek your face above the surface for 2 minutes.

If kids can't do those things easily (and also they need to be OK with going under water without any panic) they need an attentive adult with them at all times near the water.

Attentive adult means someone aware of water safety and:

a) If water is over child's head: attentive adult is in the water, within arm's reach.
b) If water is not over child's head, attentive adult can be sitting by the side of the pool but is aware of possibility that child could move to deeper water and is attentive to child, not on phone, distracted by chatting.

In any other situation near the water, if no attentive adult is constantly available, the child who cannot swim strongly should wear a coast guard approved life vest.

At our community pool, well-staffed with lifeguards, I never had my non-swimming children in life vest, but I was always attentive to them when they were in and out of the water. If non swimmers we in the water, I was either right there with them, or very close by and attentive if they were in the shallow end.

This policy is a good incentive to teach your kids the basics of swimming early, though. Both kids could pass the deep water swim test by age 5.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These posts always baffle me because everyone here seems so cautious around water, but then in real life I rarely see kids over 5 in life jackets, including at the beach or a lake. At our local pool most parents are allowing their kids to wander unsupervised starting around age 6 assuming they’re generally competent swimmers. And at the lake my entire extended family lets the kids swim off the dock without life jackets starting around the same age.

Is this another case of DCUM is not real life? Or am I surrounded by people in the minority about water safety?

I think people are more likely to affirmatively post when they are cautious than to post “I don’t worry about that” (and likely get flamed). Don’t get me wrong; I think caution around water is justified. But there’s always some virtue signaling going on with the internet posting.

But I will echo I’ve never seen a child in a true life vest at the pool. Water wings, yes, but I’m guessing most people on this thread know those are unsafe.

Anonymous wrote:These posts always baffle me because everyone here seems so cautious around water, but then in real life I rarely see kids over 5 in life jackets, including at the beach or a lake. At our local pool most parents are allowing their kids to wander unsupervised starting around age 6 assuming they’re generally competent swimmers. And at the lake my entire extended family lets the kids swim off the dock without life jackets starting around the same age.

Is this another case of DCUM is not real life? Or am I surrounded by people in the minority about water safety?

I think people are more likely to affirmatively post when they are cautious than to post “I don’t worry about that” (and likely get flamed). Don’t get me wrong; I think caution around water is justified. But there’s always some virtue signaling going on with the internet posting.

Anonymous wrote:What is with the dock stuff? Are docks more dangerous than other open water? I'm not a lake person so haven't had this experience.

I did grow up going to lakes and never wore a vest, but it was the 80s.

It's pretty easy for a little kid to fall off a dock. There are no railings and water on all sides. Plus the water off our dock is dark and >20 ft deep. If a kid went under off the dock there is basically no chance you'd find them to pull them out. And kids are often in clothes and shoes on the dock, making it harder to swim if they fall in unexpectedly, unlike planned swimming where they're in a swimsuit.

Anonymous wrote:These posts always baffle me because everyone here seems so cautious around water, but then in real life I rarely see kids over 5 in life jackets, including at the beach or a lake. At our local pool most parents are allowing their kids to wander unsupervised starting around age 6 assuming they’re generally competent swimmers. And at the lake my entire extended family lets the kids swim off the dock without life jackets starting around the same age.

Is this another case of DCUM is not real life? Or am I surrounded by people in the minority about water safety?

Of course this isn’t real life. No one in their right mind has kids in life jackets at the beach. Normal people don’t reply to these threads, just over-anxious parents that can use this as an opportunity for virtue-signaling.

We never did any life vests at pool or beach. Always within arms reach until they could swim. Both kids on swim team by 6/7. Dad is still in the water with them at the beach if they go in deeper than ankles. We don't boat or go to freshwater often. But when we do any boat rides, vests for everyone.

What is with the dock stuff? Are docks more dangerous than other open water? I'm not a lake person so haven't had this experience.

I did grow up going to lakes and never wore a vest, but it was the 80s.

Anonymous wrote:These posts always baffle me because everyone here seems so cautious around water, but then in real life I rarely see kids over 5 in life jackets, including at the beach or a lake. At our local pool most parents are allowing their kids to wander unsupervised starting around age 6 assuming they’re generally competent swimmers. And at the lake my entire extended family lets the kids swim off the dock without life jackets starting around the same age.

Is this another case of DCUM is not real life? Or am I surrounded by people in the minority about water safety?

I'm a PP whose 9 year old has never worn a life jacket outside of a boat ride, and I agree with you. Was just at the beach and didn't see anyone with life jackets. But I know my sister's kids wear them at the beach. I've never known anyone else in real life.

Anonymous wrote:These posts always baffle me because everyone here seems so cautious around water, but then in real life I rarely see kids over 5 in life jackets, including at the beach or a lake. At our local pool most parents are allowing their kids to wander unsupervised starting around age 6 assuming they’re generally competent swimmers. And at the lake my entire extended family lets the kids swim off the dock without life jackets starting around the same age.

Is this another case of DCUM is not real life? Or am I surrounded by people in the minority about water safety?

My kids don’t wear life vests at the beach but they’re also not allowed to swim in the ocean. They’re allowed to put their toes in and fill up buckets of water for play (with an adult). So you won’t see them in life vests for that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are both on swim team so can swim 500m without stopping. They're 9 and 11 yo now and it's their third year on swim team, so they've been swimming well for a while.

For us, life jackets at the ocean really depends on what the waves and current are like. Some beaches are perfectly calm and I'm fine with no life jackets. Others have strong waves and are prone to riptides. Then we do life jackets for sure. It's super beach dependant for us.

We do visit a deep, dark lake and up until last summer there was a rule that if kids headed out of the house towards the water they needed a life jacket on. Literally anytime they were behind the house, even if on land and not on the dock. We loosened up a bit last year and let them swim off the dock while watched without life jackets. I'm sure we'll keep heading in that direction.

This summer I think we're at the point where the kids can also fish, read a book, or watch the sunset off the dock without a life jacket, possibly without being closely watched by an adult. They'll always have one on with a moving boat or tubing/water skiing. That's non-negotiable.

You have your middle schooler wearing a life vest to read in the backyard near a lake? Did I misread that?

The opposite. She no longer needs a life jacket on the dock.

When they were 6 and 9 yo we did have them in life jackets all the time. It may have been overkill for the 9 yo, but not worth enforcing different rules for different sets of kids.