Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Zionists have been clamoring for war with Iran for decades. Shapiro is just a mouthpiece that regurgitates the positions of the Israeli government.

Netanyahu and his advisors developed the Clean Break strategy to reshape the wider Middle East by planning to wage war on 7countries: Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, and in Africa - Libya, Somalia and Sudan. The events in Syria in December 2024 are the culmination of a long-term effort by Israel to reshape the Middle East to its benefit.

Iran is the final country remaining on that list. Somehow and someway, Israel will get the US involved as has been the precedent set by the 6 other countries. The extent to which we get involved in this war though is uncertain, though I agree that it is more likely the US will be more hands off or by proxy.

The bolded is true, but the reality in the USA after 20years of failed wars in the Middle East that resulted in tens of thousands of maimed and PTSD affected US soldiers , not to mention former soldiers who disclose classified information ... enlistment in down in US Military and DoS and CIA- all because of the poor analysis and corrupt influence that fed the Iraq war, the Afghan endless war.

Yes, Israel would like to manipulate our political system to use America as it's contractor Air Force and Navy to attack it's main rival for them. But to do so would create a fatal vacuum in the Middle East that would be disastorous for the region and the world. the truth is :

A stable Iran is far more integral to a stable Middle East than ANY other country. Historically, it occupied the lands that are Iraq and it's most sacred religious shrines ( Karbala and Najaf ) are in Iraq. Hence it's cultural diffusion with Iraq and it;s ability to influence and stabilize that region. Same could be said of Iran's historical relations with Turkey, the Kurds, the Afghans and the Indians. Isreal is an alien in this world- a destructive alien at that.

Iranians are a brilliant people and their civilization produced the 1st constitution in the world in 500 BC no less. If they are temporarily ruled by Mullah's - that was is the fault of the CIA that funded them with 100's of millions of $$$ to overthrow Mosadegh in 1953. I think Khatemi is trying to reform, hence the new President is a moderate. Don't under-estimate this society and it's ability to be a stabilizing force.

The destabilizer, the threat to the region is Israel and their racist and fascist leadership . The entire world is now seeing them for what they are: destructive

Their lobbying mouth pieces within the USA should be charged with violation of federal law for not registering as agents of a foreign government

The bolded is a true statement followed by a bunch of nonsense (Iran has had the opposite of a stabilizing influence on Iraq, they literally had a brutal war with each other in the not too distant past, and then Iran funded all sides of the insurgency in Iraq so that the Shiia and Sunnis in Iraq would be able to kill each other faster. Iran is arguably the most destabilizing force in Iraq, from their security situation to their politics, and they are responsible for more death in Iraq over the past 3 decades than the US ever was.)

And this is the central issue with the Iran-appeasement crowd. You think that to stabilize Iran, we need to cooperate with them. This is dangerously misguided and largely pushed by a Wilsonian delusion about how the world works. Just like integrating China only let them closer to us for them to hurt us, pulling Iran into the fold only puts them in a better position to hurt us. They have proven this over and over and over. Here's Christopher Hitchens, long dead, making this argument 15 years ago: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2009/09/engaging-with-iran-is-like-having-sex-with-someone-who-hates-you.html

Since this time, Iran has:

-supplied arms and funding to the Syrian regime to aid in their violent suppression of its citizens
- funded and supplied the Houthi pirates in their attacks on commercial shipping, costing the globe an estimated $30B in damages
- multiple, ongoing attacks on Israel
- bombed a bus in Bulgaria
- attacked US soldiers in Iraq
- provided safe haven to key operatives involved in 9/11.

You don't have to like Israel to recognize that Iran is an enemy. You can do both things at once: believe that Israel is wrong, and also acknowledge that Iran is a terror state committed to the destruction of the US.

We had Iran completely in check. Then several Iran-linked people infiltrated policy circles in DC and have convinced the left that if only we just submit to Iran, they will be nice. We have done it. We did JCPOA, and then Biden pulled back on Abraham Accords. Every. Single. Time-- they immediately use the runway to attack western interests. You dislike Isreal, okay, but don't be so naive as to think that you're aligned with Iran. Even *Iranians* are not aligned with Iran.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Israel can only attack Iran from the air and with, perhaps, a few very small commando-style ground operations. There is no way in hell that the IDF is capable of occupying Iran. Therefore, if Israel strikes first, it has to deliver a knock-out blow because past experience shows that it cannot defend itself against an Iranian attack. Israel needs the help of the U.S. to do that. Trump has clearly warned Israel not to attack while U.S.-Iran talks are going on. It is therefore possible that Trump will not come to Israel's aid if Israel strikes first.

I can't see Trump showing any interest in an Iraq-style occupation of Iran. Therefore, if the U.S. gets involved, I think our attacks will be limited to stand-off weapons. The result of those attacks will likely be to turn Iran into a failed state, joining the failed states of Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, and, partially, Lebanon. That is a lot of territory and a lot of people to put into states of anarchy and is a recipe for future problems.

Agree.
The best either Israel or the US could manage right now would be an aerial decapitation strike and then hope for regime change from within. But yes, likely will result in yet more failed-state chaos.

jsteele wrote:Israel can only attack Iran from the air and with, perhaps, a few very small commando-style ground operations. There is no way in hell that the IDF is capable of occupying Iran. Therefore, if Israel strikes first, it has to deliver a knock-out blow because past experience shows that it cannot defend itself against an Iranian attack. Israel needs the help of the U.S. to do that. Trump has clearly warned Israel not to attack while U.S.-Iran talks are going on. It is therefore possible that Trump will not come to Israel's aid if Israel strikes first.

I can't see Trump showing any interest in an Iraq-style occupation of Iran. Therefore, if the U.S. gets involved, I think our attacks will be limited to stand-off weapons. The result of those attacks will likely be to turn Iran into a failed state, joining the failed states of Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, and, partially, Lebanon. That is a lot of territory and a lot of people to put into states of anarchy and is a recipe for future problems.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Zionists have been clamoring for war with Iran for decades. Shapiro is just a mouthpiece that regurgitates the positions of the Israeli government.

Netanyahu and his advisors developed the Clean Break strategy to reshape the wider Middle East by planning to wage war on 7countries: Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, and in Africa - Libya, Somalia and Sudan. The events in Syria in December 2024 are the culmination of a long-term effort by Israel to reshape the Middle East to its benefit.

Iran is the final country remaining on that list. Somehow and someway, Israel will get the US involved as has been the precedent set by the 6 other countries. The extent to which we get involved in this war though is uncertain, though I agree that it is more likely the US will be more hands off or by proxy.

The bolded is true, but the reality in the USA after 20years of failed wars in the Middle East that resulted in tens of thousands of maimed and PTSD affected US soldiers , not to mention former soldiers who disclose classified information ... enlistment in down in US Military and DoS and CIA- all because of the poor analysis and corrupt influence that fed the Iraq war, the Afghan endless war.

Yes, Israel would like to manipulate our political system to use America as it's contractor Air Force and Navy to attack it's main rival for them. But to do so would create a fatal vacuum in the Middle East that would be disastorous for the region and the world. the truth is :

A stable Iran is far more integral to a stable Middle East than ANY other country. Historically, it occupied the lands that are Iraq and it's most sacred religious shrines ( Karbala and Najaf ) are in Iraq. Hence it's cultural diffusion with Iraq and it;s ability to influence and stabilize that region. Same could be said of Iran's historical relations with Turkey, the Kurds, the Afghans and the Indians. Isreal is an alien in this world- a destructive alien at that.

Iranians are a brilliant people and their civilization produced the 1st constitution in the world in 500 BC no less. If they are temporarily ruled by Mullah's - that was is the fault of the CIA that funded them with 100's of millions of $$$ to overthrow Mosadegh in 1953. I think Khatemi is trying to reform, hence the new President is a moderate. Don't under-estimate this society and it's ability to be a stabilizing force.

The destabilizer, the threat to the region is Israel and their racist and fascist leadership . The entire world is now seeing them for what they are: destructive

Their lobbying mouth pieces within the USA should be charged with violation of federal law for not registering as agents of a foreign government

The bolded is a true statement followed by a bunch of nonsense (Iran has had the opposite of a stabilizing influence on Iraq, they literally had a brutal war with each other in the not too distant past, and then Iran funded all sides of the insurgency in Iraq so that the Shiia and Sunnis in Iraq would be able to kill each other faster. Iran is arguably the most destabilizing force in Iraq, from their security situation to their politics, and they are responsible for more death in Iraq over the past 3 decades than the US ever was.)

And this is the central issue with the Iran-appeasement crowd. You think that to stabilize Iran, we need to cooperate with them. This is dangerously misguided and largely pushed by a Wilsonian delusion about how the world works. Just like integrating China only let them closer to us for them to hurt us, pulling Iran into the fold only puts them in a better position to hurt us. They have proven this over and over and over. Here's Christopher Hitchens, long dead, making this argument 15 years ago: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2009/09/engaging-with-iran-is-like-having-sex-with-someone-who-hates-you.html

Since this time, Iran has:

-supplied arms and funding to the Syrian regime to aid in their violent suppression of its citizens
- funded and supplied the Houthi pirates in their attacks on commercial shipping, costing the globe an estimated $30B in damages
- multiple, ongoing attacks on Israel
- bombed a bus in Bulgaria
- attacked US soldiers in Iraq
- provided safe haven to key operatives involved in 9/11.

You don't have to like Israel to recognize that Iran is an enemy. You can do both things at once: believe that Israel is wrong, and also acknowledge that Iran is a terror state committed to the destruction of the US.

We had Iran completely in check. Then several Iran-linked people infiltrated policy circles in DC and have convinced the left that if only we just submit to Iran, they will be nice. We have done it. We did JCPOA, and then Biden pulled back on Abraham Accords. Every. Single. Time-- they immediately use the runway to attack western interests. You dislike Isreal, okay, but don't be so naive as to think that you're aligned with Iran. Even *Iranians* are not aligned with Iran.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Zionists have been clamoring for war with Iran for decades. Shapiro is just a mouthpiece that regurgitates the positions of the Israeli government.

Netanyahu and his advisors developed the Clean Break strategy to reshape the wider Middle East by planning to wage war on 7countries: Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, and in Africa - Libya, Somalia and Sudan. The events in Syria in December 2024 are the culmination of a long-term effort by Israel to reshape the Middle East to its benefit.

Iran is the final country remaining on that list. Somehow and someway, Israel will get the US involved as has been the precedent set by the 6 other countries. The extent to which we get involved in this war though is uncertain, though I agree that it is more likely the US will be more hands off or by proxy.

The bolded is true, but the reality in the USA after 20years of failed wars in the Middle East that resulted in tens of thousands of maimed and PTSD affected US soldiers , not to mention former soldiers who disclose classified information ... enlistment in down in US Military and DoS and CIA- all because of the poor analysis and corrupt influence that fed the Iraq war, the Afghan endless war.

Yes, Israel would like to manipulate our political system to use America as it's contractor Air Force and Navy to attack it's main rival for them. But to do so would create a fatal vacuum in the Middle East that would be disastorous for the region and the world. the truth is :

A stable Iran is far more integral to a stable Middle East than ANY other country. Historically, it occupied the lands that are Iraq and it's most sacred religious shrines ( Karbala and Najaf ) are in Iraq. Hence it's cultural diffusion with Iraq and it;s ability to influence and stabilize that region. Same could be said of Iran's historical relations with Turkey, the Kurds, the Afghans and the Indians. Isreal is an alien in this world- a destructive alien at that.

Iranians are a brilliant people and their civilization produced the 1st constitution in the world in 500 BC no less. If they are temporarily ruled by Mullah's - that was is the fault of the CIA that funded them with 100's of millions of $$$ to overthrow Mosadegh in 1953. I think Khatemi is trying to reform, hence the new President is a moderate. Don't under-estimate this society and it's ability to be a stabilizing force.

The destabilizer, the threat to the region is Israel and their racist and fascist leadership . The entire world is now seeing them for what they are: destructive

Their lobbying mouth pieces within the USA should be charged with violation of federal law for not registering as agents of a foreign government

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ben Shapiro is a little, sniveling, indoctrinated Yeshiva HS boy. He’s a conservative, evangelical, political commentator with a low-brow platform. His war-mongering big mouth will never compensate for his micro penis.

lol. Tell us what you really think

Anonymous wrote:Zionists have been clamoring for war with Iran for decades. Shapiro is just a mouthpiece that regurgitates the positions of the Israeli government.

Netanyahu and his advisors developed the Clean Break strategy to reshape the wider Middle East by planning to wage war on 7countries: Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, and in Africa - Libya, Somalia and Sudan. The events in Syria in December 2024 are the culmination of a long-term effort by Israel to reshape the Middle East to its benefit.

Iran is the final country remaining on that list. Somehow and someway, Israel will get the US involved as has been the precedent set by the 6 other countries. The extent to which we get involved in this war though is uncertain, though I agree that it is more likely the US will be more hands off or by proxy.

Anonymous wrote:I listen to Ben Shapiro daily. OP, you are badly mischaracterising what he said.

Right after Oct 7, I came on here and said this clearly happened because of the Abraham Accords. You all, including Jeff, were like what? No... and then Hamas said it was because of the Abraham Accords.

So can you all admit, please, that your interest in the Middle East is pretty casual? Most of you have never even been there.

What Shapiro said is that Trump 1.0 had a hawkish policy toward Iran. And Trump 2.0 has turned isolationist and conciliatory toward Iran. This is just true- why do you think that one of Trump's first actions was to sack the people involved in the Soleimani assassination? And to strip Pompeo and Brian Hook of their government security? Obviously because the new people (probably Vance) needed to dispose of the Iran hawks and warn others: "if you take action against Iran and they try to kill you, we will not protect you."

Shapiro isn't advocating for boots on the ground war with Iran. That's ridiculous. He's arguing that Iran has noticed that the hawks are out, the bedwetters are in, and our defenses are down.

Anonymous wrote:I listen to Ben Shapiro daily. OP, you are badly mischaracterising what he said.

Right after Oct 7, I came on here and said this clearly happened because of the Abraham Accords. You all, including Jeff, were like what? No... and then Hamas said it was because of the Abraham Accords.

So can you all admit, please, that your interest in the Middle East is pretty casual? Most of you have never even been there.

What Shapiro said is that Trump 1.0 had a hawkish policy toward Iran. And Trump 2.0 has turned isolationist and conciliatory toward Iran. This is just true- why do you think that one of Trump's first actions was to sack the people involved in the Soleimani assassination? And to strip Pompeo and Brian Hook of their government security? Obviously because the new people (probably Vance) needed to dispose of the Iran hawks and warn others: "if you take action against Iran and they try to kill you, we will not protect you."

Shapiro isn't advocating for boots on the ground war with Iran. That's ridiculous. He's arguing that Iran has noticed that the hawks are out, the bedwetters are in, and our defenses are down.

Anonymous wrote:Ben Shapiro is a little, sniveling, indoctrinated Yeshiva HS boy. He’s a conservative, evangelical, political commentator with a low-brow platform. His war-mongering big mouth will never compensate for his micro penis.

Anonymous wrote:Its a good plan. Then we won't have the resources to start a fight with Russia or China.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On his podcast he was claiming the U.S. and Israel should strike Iran jointly and that if the U.S. refuses too help Israel should at least be allowed to strike since they are not involved in the negotiations.

Another commentator, Alan Dershowitz, appeared on Brian Kilmeade's show on Fox news and argued Trump should have the U.S. strike Iran if the negotiations arent successful whilst negotiations are ongoing or at least green light Israel striking Iran.

My question: If Israel strikes Iran, does the U.S. have an obligation to go to war on behalf of Israel? If Israel starts a war with Iran would that inevitably drag the U.S. into a war in the M.E. like Iraq/Afghanistan?

Nope, no obligation, and I think Shapiro and Dershowitz may be very surprised when the left and right sides of the horseshoe combine forces to keep us out of another foreign war that has nothing to do with US national security.