AO's eat them up. Think they can spot a kid "genuine 17 year old voice"!

Also:

Yep, it’s such an arms race in certain hypercompetitive markets that it’s tough to get work as an admission consultant unless you're willing to compromise your ethics (which a few of us absolutely refuse to do). There’s an entire shadow industry built around Photoshopping kids into team pics, helping them "launch" apps or startups they barely touched, buying spots in research programs, etc. And families often expect that level of involvement -- they see it as standard, not shady. If you try to do things ethically, you risk losing them to some huckster with a flashier pitch. The incentives are completely upside down.

From a college counselor on Reddit:

We had a job applicant once for a technical writer position who wrote in their resume that their past job involved writing admissions essays for Chinese students to apply to American schools, and their achievement was that some pretty high % of those students got into Ivy League schools using essays they wrote.

Another one:

Korea prides itself as a meritocracy but there’s also a lot of corruption going on. Even the brightest students had to do something a little sus to reach a T10.
In my ten years working here, many students were very smart but still quite bad at writing. Only three students I saw didn’t need anything at all except, “Hey, you’re really really good.” They themselves had no idea.
I think of myself as a session musician, sprucing up the solo on someone’s song. I charge a lot when I think the student has a real shot at an Ivy. If not, I tell the student that my help won’t change anything and that they should save their money. Still, most of them fall prey to someone else’s promises.
People charge insane amounts because no one really knows what’s going on, and even if a student feels they got scammed, who are they going to complain to? “Excuse me, I paid someone to help me cheat and the cheating was subpar.”
The only thing worse than gentrified neighborhoods is gentified universities. They create a tremendous imbalance based upon exclusion, and so long as the need for prestige exists the college consulting businesses will thrive, especially in places like Korea.

Research papers are such a joke! I know a kid whose mom, a well known researcher, put her kid's name on the paper as the sole author and got it published in a well known journal. Zero input from the kid. I'm sure this wasn't the only time this happened... Interested to see how it plays out...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fpr 99% of the time - the Student Published Research Paper is a scam; either a made up journal no one cares about or a family connection to a professor.

A proper research paper takes a person with a PHD months if not years of work, blind reviewed by three other researchers, and submitted months before being published. It's not a weekend write-up.

There are intro books that are written by teens that are legit, they are things like how to create a website; it's basic and legit. This is what I expect from a teen.

What next? Colleges are expecting a book on the best seller list?

If your kid can do all this? why are they going to college?

Okay, put aside whether or not the research work is ever published or not.

Many high schools have science research programs for students that are interested in science research. At our high school, it starts freshman year of high school and progresses through senior year.

The students build up their knowledge and skills and then normally during the summer after Junior year, they work with a mentor on a research project. Senior fall includes finalizing the data analysis and completing the research paper under the guidance of the science research instructor. This program is aimed at learning about science research and then making a submission to science competitions like Isef and regeneron and others.

It's possible that this work could be submitted to certain colleges to support an application if it's a university that considers such submissions. Some do.

It's certainly not for everyone but for students that are interested in science research it's a great program.

This is totally different from publishing a paper at a international journal which I'm claiming is a scam except for a select few. What you described is completely legit and you should enter this also in the Science Fair or Science Olympiad for further recognition; the Science Fairs were built for this but now they have also become a scam. Google the winning science fair titles you'll see it's a rip-off of a land-mark research paper of that same year. I can't believe kids have to fake it to make it now. And then what? the next generation of Cons rule the world?

Can you name the ISEF winning study and the landmark study it copied?

Anonymous wrote:Fpr 99% of the time - the Student Published Research Paper is a scam; either a made up journal no one cares about or a family connection to a professor.

A proper research paper takes a person with a PHD months if not years of work, blind reviewed by three other researchers, and submitted months before being published. It's not a weekend write-up.

There are intro books that are written by teens that are legit, they are things like how to create a website; it's basic and legit. This is what I expect from a teen.

What next? Colleges are expecting a book on the best seller list?

If your kid can do all this? why are they going to college?

...because you need a degree to go into academia?

Anonymous wrote:Fpr 99% of the time - the Student Published Research Paper is a scam; either a made up journal no one cares about or a family connection to a professor.

A proper research paper takes a person with a PHD months if not years of work, blind reviewed by three other researchers, and submitted months before being published. It's not a weekend write-up.

There are intro books that are written by teens that are legit, they are things like how to create a website; it's basic and legit. This is what I expect from a teen.

What next? Colleges are expecting a book on the best seller list?

If your kid can do all this? why are they going to college?

+1. None of the debate on this thread would even be happening if people hadn’t started trying to make the “published research” application angle a thing. Just accept 17/18 year olds where they are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fpr 99% of the time - the Student Published Research Paper is a scam; either a made up journal no one cares about or a family connection to a professor.

A proper research paper takes a person with a PHD months if not years of work, blind reviewed by three other researchers, and submitted months before being published. It's not a weekend write-up.

There are intro books that are written by teens that are legit, they are things like how to create a website; it's basic and legit. This is what I expect from a teen.

What next? Colleges are expecting a book on the best seller list?

If your kid can do all this? why are they going to college?

Okay, put aside whether or not the research work is ever published or not.

Many high schools have science research programs for students that are interested in science research. At our high school, it starts freshman year of high school and progresses through senior year.

The students build up their knowledge and skills and then normally during the summer after Junior year, they work with a mentor on a research project. Senior fall includes finalizing the data analysis and completing the research paper under the guidance of the science research instructor. This program is aimed at learning about science research and then making a submission to science competitions like Isef and regeneron and others.

It's possible that this work could be submitted to certain colleges to support an application if it's a university that considers such submissions. Some do.

It's certainly not for everyone but for students that are interested in science research it's a great program.

This is totally different from publishing a paper at a international journal which I'm claiming is a scam except for a select few. What you described is completely legit and you should enter this also in the Science Fair or Science Olympiad for further recognition; the Science Fairs were built for this but now they have also become a scam. Google the winning science fair titles you'll see it's a rip-off of a land-mark research paper of that same year. I can't believe kids have to fake it to make it now. And then what? the next generation of Cons rule the world?

Relax drama queen. It's just a course taught in high schools to learn about science research.

The HS course is fine and I encourage it. The outcome is the right level with the right stress.

What I am saying is "the over the top accomplishments" are a total scam.

There's a wide range of ability when learning science research just like with anything else. Some kids can be a tennis pro by age 18 and some will never hit the ball over the net.

Just back off kids that are interested in science research. There's nothing wrong with it and some of them are really interested and want to put a lot of time and energy into it and some don't.

Some of the projects and analysis yield a statistically significant result that is of interest. Most do not. It's no different than any other pursuit.

I'm specifically talking about those that claim very very significant research;

If a kid benches 100lbs that's fine; if few kids bench 300 that's fine. If a group of HS students are benching 500lbs and it's growing every year. I can at least suspect steroids?

Stop making it look like I'm against all HS Research. Just calling out the fakes.

All of your posts are negative. Nothing positive or encouraging to the non-fakes which is most of the interested students. Every single one of the students in the program did a research project. Some were a lot more advanced than others and that is fine. None of them were fake.

No one is born knowing how to do science research. You learn how to do it and it is absolutely fine to start that process in high school for a student that is motivated.

What the hell are you talking about? the topic of the thread is published research papers. Start another thread if you want to talk about something different.

It's just about research papers. I think one poster had a comment about a published research paper. The thread is just about research papers and submitting them along with a college application.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fpr 99% of the time - the Student Published Research Paper is a scam; either a made up journal no one cares about or a family connection to a professor.

A proper research paper takes a person with a PHD months if not years of work, blind reviewed by three other researchers, and submitted months before being published. It's not a weekend write-up.

There are intro books that are written by teens that are legit, they are things like how to create a website; it's basic and legit. This is what I expect from a teen.

What next? Colleges are expecting a book on the best seller list?

If your kid can do all this? why are they going to college?

Okay, put aside whether or not the research work is ever published or not.

Many high schools have science research programs for students that are interested in science research. At our high school, it starts freshman year of high school and progresses through senior year.

The students build up their knowledge and skills and then normally during the summer after Junior year, they work with a mentor on a research project. Senior fall includes finalizing the data analysis and completing the research paper under the guidance of the science research instructor. This program is aimed at learning about science research and then making a submission to science competitions like Isef and regeneron and others.

It's possible that this work could be submitted to certain colleges to support an application if it's a university that considers such submissions. Some do.

It's certainly not for everyone but for students that are interested in science research it's a great program.

This is totally different from publishing a paper at a international journal which I'm claiming is a scam except for a select few. What you described is completely legit and you should enter this also in the Science Fair or Science Olympiad for further recognition; the Science Fairs were built for this but now they have also become a scam. Google the winning science fair titles you'll see it's a rip-off of a land-mark research paper of that same year. I can't believe kids have to fake it to make it now. And then what? the next generation of Cons rule the world?

Relax drama queen. It's just a course taught in high schools to learn about science research.

The HS course is fine and I encourage it. The outcome is the right level with the right stress.

What I am saying is "the over the top accomplishments" are a total scam.

There's a wide range of ability when learning science research just like with anything else. Some kids can be a tennis pro by age 18 and some will never hit the ball over the net.

Just back off kids that are interested in science research. There's nothing wrong with it and some of them are really interested and want to put a lot of time and energy into it and some don't.

Some of the projects and analysis yield a statistically significant result that is of interest. Most do not. It's no different than any other pursuit.

I'm specifically talking about those that claim very very significant research;

If a kid benches 100lbs that's fine; if few kids bench 300 that's fine. If a group of HS students are benching 500lbs and it's growing every year. I can at least suspect steroids?

Stop making it look like I'm against all HS Research. Just calling out the fakes.

All of your posts are negative. Nothing positive or encouraging to the non-fakes which is most of the interested students. Every single one of the students in the program did a research project. Some were a lot more advanced than others and that is fine. None of them were fake.

No one is born knowing how to do science research. You learn how to do it and it is absolutely fine to start that process in high school for a student that is motivated.

What the hell are you talking about? the topic of the thread is published research papers. Start another thread if you want to talk about something different.

Not all the students that explore science research in high school will go on to get a PhD in science. Not even close. That is a long and difficult road. But some of them will and good for them.

I think all of them have respect for the scientific method and for scientific research regardless of what they ultimately pursue. And thank goodness for that, especially in this horrible anti-science environment we are all currently experiencing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fpr 99% of the time - the Student Published Research Paper is a scam; either a made up journal no one cares about or a family connection to a professor.

A proper research paper takes a person with a PHD months if not years of work, blind reviewed by three other researchers, and submitted months before being published. It's not a weekend write-up.

There are intro books that are written by teens that are legit, they are things like how to create a website; it's basic and legit. This is what I expect from a teen.

What next? Colleges are expecting a book on the best seller list?

If your kid can do all this? why are they going to college?

Okay, put aside whether or not the research work is ever published or not.

Many high schools have science research programs for students that are interested in science research. At our high school, it starts freshman year of high school and progresses through senior year.

The students build up their knowledge and skills and then normally during the summer after Junior year, they work with a mentor on a research project. Senior fall includes finalizing the data analysis and completing the research paper under the guidance of the science research instructor. This program is aimed at learning about science research and then making a submission to science competitions like Isef and regeneron and others.

It's possible that this work could be submitted to certain colleges to support an application if it's a university that considers such submissions. Some do.

It's certainly not for everyone but for students that are interested in science research it's a great program.

This is totally different from publishing a paper at a international journal which I'm claiming is a scam except for a select few. What you described is completely legit and you should enter this also in the Science Fair or Science Olympiad for further recognition; the Science Fairs were built for this but now they have also become a scam. Google the winning science fair titles you'll see it's a rip-off of a land-mark research paper of that same year. I can't believe kids have to fake it to make it now. And then what? the next generation of Cons rule the world?

Relax drama queen. It's just a course taught in high schools to learn about science research.

The HS course is fine and I encourage it. The outcome is the right level with the right stress.

What I am saying is "the over the top accomplishments" are a total scam.

There's a wide range of ability when learning science research just like with anything else. Some kids can be a tennis pro by age 18 and some will never hit the ball over the net.

Just back off kids that are interested in science research. There's nothing wrong with it and some of them are really interested and want to put a lot of time and energy into it and some don't.

Some of the projects and analysis yield a statistically significant result that is of interest. Most do not. It's no different than any other pursuit.

I'm specifically talking about those that claim very very significant research;

If a kid benches 100lbs that's fine; if few kids bench 300 that's fine. If a group of HS students are benching 500lbs and it's growing every year. I can at least suspect steroids?

Stop making it look like I'm against all HS Research. Just calling out the fakes.

All of your posts are negative. Nothing positive or encouraging to the non-fakes which is most of the interested students. Every single one of the students in the program did a research project. Some were a lot more advanced than others and that is fine. None of them were fake.

No one is born knowing how to do science research. You learn how to do it and it is absolutely fine to start that process in high school for a student that is motivated.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fpr 99% of the time - the Student Published Research Paper is a scam; either a made up journal no one cares about or a family connection to a professor.

A proper research paper takes a person with a PHD months if not years of work, blind reviewed by three other researchers, and submitted months before being published. It's not a weekend write-up.

There are intro books that are written by teens that are legit, they are things like how to create a website; it's basic and legit. This is what I expect from a teen.

What next? Colleges are expecting a book on the best seller list?

If your kid can do all this? why are they going to college?

Okay, put aside whether or not the research work is ever published or not.

Many high schools have science research programs for students that are interested in science research. At our high school, it starts freshman year of high school and progresses through senior year.

The students build up their knowledge and skills and then normally during the summer after Junior year, they work with a mentor on a research project. Senior fall includes finalizing the data analysis and completing the research paper under the guidance of the science research instructor. This program is aimed at learning about science research and then making a submission to science competitions like Isef and regeneron and others.

It's possible that this work could be submitted to certain colleges to support an application if it's a university that considers such submissions. Some do.

It's certainly not for everyone but for students that are interested in science research it's a great program.

This is totally different from publishing a paper at a international journal which I'm claiming is a scam except for a select few. What you described is completely legit and you should enter this also in the Science Fair or Science Olympiad for further recognition; the Science Fairs were built for this but now they have also become a scam. Google the winning science fair titles you'll see it's a rip-off of a land-mark research paper of that same year. I can't believe kids have to fake it to make it now. And then what? the next generation of Cons rule the world?

Relax drama queen. It's just a course taught in high schools to learn about science research.

The HS course is fine and I encourage it. The outcome is the right level with the right stress.

What I am saying is "the over the top accomplishments" are a total scam.

There's a wide range of ability when learning science research just like with anything else. Some kids can be a tennis pro by age 18 and some will never hit the ball over the net.

Just back off kids that are interested in science research. There's nothing wrong with it and some of them are really interested and want to put a lot of time and energy into it and some don't.

Some of the projects and analysis yield a statistically significant result that is of interest. Most do not. It's no different than any other pursuit.

I'm specifically talking about those that claim very very significant research;

If a kid benches 100lbs that's fine; if few kids bench 300 that's fine. If a group of HS students are benching 500lbs and it's growing every year. I can at least suspect steroids?

Stop making it look like I'm against all HS Research. Just calling out the fakes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are several high school online journals where they can publish. I just don’t know which professors refer to a high school journal

High school journals are predatory. Please just let them be kids. Research is for professors.

I don't know what high school journals are, but high school students absolutely can be interested in research. Many high schools have science research programs.

They can be interested, but they still have to learn how to participate in research and how to design useful and appropriate projects right alongside everyone else. A HS student is at best the beginning member of a team in the sciences. Real humanities research requires a quantity of reading and of knowledge of other languages that usually makes it less viable before graduate school. Plus (non-digital) humanities research is still most often conducted solo, not as part of groups that have junior members. Unless you're talking about large multi-year grants in Europe. And there the 'junior' members are writing doctoral dissertations - they aren't in HS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My High school child mentioned that colleges are now looking for research papers for admissions. If anyone here can please explain the process, as we are not familiar with it, thank you for your help.

My DC submitted one that was published. she participated in in the research and the head researcher put her in the byline for her contribution. The instructions from the institution had indicated what type of materials they would consider for submission and published research was on that list.

what exactly were your DC's contributions?

Proficient enough in R to perform some data analysis. Not all of it, a piece of it. A task appropriate for a nerdy high school senior to turn into a nice high school research project.

The mentor was wonderful. Gave a little time, not a lot, to a high school kid interested in the topic and who had enough skills to make a small contribution.

you are way overthinking this. For my DC, this was important and so what? There are entire threads about soccer and piano and debate and on and on.

There are opportunities for science geeks out here and ain't let Debbie downer on here dissuade your kid from exploring them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My High school child mentioned that colleges are now looking for research papers for admissions. If anyone here can please explain the process, as we are not familiar with it, thank you for your help.

My DC submitted one that was published. she participated in in the research and the head researcher put her in the byline for her contribution. The instructions from the institution had indicated what type of materials they would consider for submission and published research was on that list.

HS kids now routinely head research and publish papers? That’s cool and a lot of work. No wonder they’re stressed!!

And then they get to college and away from their parents, and never publish another paper and never file for another patent ever again.

If they're at all interested, they do research in undergrad, often starting in freshman year?