Anonymous wrote:Regarding analogy between favoritism at swim and favoritism for work and teaching kids to adapt, I agree with teaching kids coping mechanisms and trying to help them be attentive and find the joy regardless.

However, people (and swimmers) have options. At some point, it’s typically not best to keep banging your head against a wall (or in the case of swimming, spending thousands of dollars and countless hours) doing something where you feel undervalued and not appreciated. One difference is a swimmer is a paying customer and may not feel like they’re getting their monies worth with the services offered when coaches don’t favor them but do favor others. That's when people move on.

Alternative options will present themselves at some point. Most people these days leave jobs where they feel they aren’t being recognized and appreciated. Usually they end up with promotions and raises.

And in the case of swim teams, get better coaching and thriving (becoming far, far faster). My kid switched teams, received better coaching, and is beating many former teammates that were the coach's favorites. My kid isn't nasty about it to them or the former coach - just allows the even times speak for themselves. One former coach apparently said "hi" to my kid and offered congratulations for being a top finisher in an event.

As for me, I'm just happy that my kid is happy about swimming again.

Anonymous wrote:Regarding analogy between favoritism at swim and favoritism for work and teaching kids to adapt, I agree with teaching kids coping mechanisms and trying to help them be attentive and find the joy regardless.

However, people (and swimmers) have options. At some point, it’s typically not best to keep banging your head against a wall (or in the case of swimming, spending thousands of dollars and countless hours) doing something where you feel undervalued and not appreciated. One difference is a swimmer is a paying customer and may not feel like they’re getting their monies worth with the services offered when coaches don’t favor them but do favor others. That's when people move on.

Alternative options will present themselves at some point. Most people these days leave jobs where they feel they aren’t being recognized and appreciated. Usually they end up with promotions and raises.

That’s not the DCUM way!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even the OP of this (really pedantic) thread misses an opportunity:

(1) Favoritism disadvantages people with neurodivergencies;
(2) Most coaches (outside of perhaps special educators) are ill-equipped to see beyond the conformist-behaved child and work within a neurodivergency rather than push against it and blackball it;
(3) Many replies to this post support (1) and (2), suggesting an outcast status — notwithstanding swimming ability — for children who are unable to conform to average (or exceptional) attention span, average (or exceptional) engagement, and average (or exceptional) communication.
This post says more about people’s disfavor for neurodivergent children than it does about private planes and giving a kid a spot in an A meet (which, BTW, you can look up the private plane borrower’s children to see where the facts stand to that end).

We need to do better.

I read this as, “my kid requires significant special and extra attention for the same price as everyone else. S/he doesn’t get that attention, and that’s a problem. Society is broken.” I’d love to be corrected if this isn’t the case.

DP but, no, that's not what this means.

My kid is ND and one accommodation we asked for at swim is that she be exempt from a birthday tradition where the child with the birthday gets tossed up in the air by one of the coaches after the whole pool sings happy birthday. This happened the first year and my kid, who has sensory issues and hates being the center of attention, hates it.

The coaches have learned not to do stuff like this with my kid, who is otherwise conscientious, coachable, and a good, fast swimmer. They have learned she sometimes has a flat affect when they are expecting smiling enthusiasm, and that this doesn't mean she's mad or upset. But all of this also makes it hard for them to like her, and she is not among their favorites even though she's a better swimmer than some kids who are favorites and is not disruptive.

This is what the PP is referring to. This is the cost of bring ND in settings where there is a high value placed on being conformist and being able to perform "normalcy" in a way that meets expectations. It's being the kid who participated and follows directions, but the coaches whisper is "weird" or "just off" behind their back.

Regarding analogy between favoritism at swim and favoritism for work and teaching kids to adapt, I agree with teaching kids coping mechanisms and trying to help them be attentive and find the joy regardless.

However, people (and swimmers) have options. At some point, it’s typically not best to keep banging your head against a wall (or in the case of swimming, spending thousands of dollars and countless hours) doing something where you feel undervalued and not appreciated. One difference is a swimmer is a paying customer and may not feel like they’re getting their monies worth with the services offered when coaches don’t favor them but do favor others. That's when people move on.

Alternative options will present themselves at some point. Most people these days leave jobs where they feel they aren’t being recognized and appreciated. Usually they end up with promotions and raises.

In life there is always going to be favoritism to some extent.

Why not let the kids figure it out and learn how to deal/cope with what they are going to experience down the road. Maybe being more attentive will help make them a favorite, maybe following instructions will make them a favorite, or maybe it’s asking questions after races…. Every coach is different just like every swimmer is different and later in life every boss is different.

Learning how to navigate favoritism when they are young sets them up for success for relationships, school, and jobs down the road. You can’t eliminate it so learn to adapt.

There is favoritism everywhere, OP, but generally it starts by a coach or teacher or mentor noticing that a student has gifts, not only in the discipline, but also in socio-emotional intelligence - knowing how to take direction, how to read between the lines, how to lose gracefully and win without crowing, how to be resilient during difficult times... all this is part of the package.

My daughter has been favored by her teacher. That's because she's exceptionally intelligent and quick, and he has therefore invested in her because he recognized she could go the distance. In return, she has benefited from favorable treatment. My other kids have never had that sort of favor, because they're not as talented. That's how it works in life.

Anonymous wrote:Disagree that fast = favorite, based on conversations with coaches. There can be many reasons for being a favorite, such as work ethic, personality, or the kids parents offer you rides on their private jet.

Agree. There are definitely fast kids who are easy to dislike for their actions and work ethic. Makes for good opportunity to coach and help them grow as individuals, but not always easy to like.

People who practice more and have good swim genetics are faster swimmers.

Disagree that fast = favorite, based on conversations with coaches. There can be many reasons for being a favorite, such as work ethic, personality, or the kids parents offer you rides on their private jet.

Would be curious to hear from some coaches about the examples above and the perception of favoritism?

For example, I could see a coach saying this kid will rise to the challenge and this kid will be discouraged when making a choice about moving a kid up or not. Are these types of decisions communicated with parents.

I remember a slightly faster kid getting passed over for a relay and the mom insisted it was because of favoritism. The reality was the kid was unreliable, frequently false starting and even though the coach explained his reasoning, the mom wouldn't believe it was performance based.

Anonymous wrote:What are examples of favoritism vs. not? I believe it, just curious for examples. Like A meets I’ve read things like not picking the fastest swimmers for relays, or even not picking the fastest swimmers for individual events. What some non-meet examples that people have seen in person or their kid told them?

Our team has different junior groups. Some kids get moved into advanced group faster than others who have the same time more or less. Coaches have time for some kids for private lessons and not for others. Coaches providing more feedback to some kids after a swim at a meet to their favorite kids.

Of course there is favoritism. It gets bad with college recruiting which is about much more than times and coaches have connections with college coaches. It gets ugly.

Anonymous wrote:What are examples of favoritism vs. not? I believe it, just curious for examples. Like A meets I’ve read things like not picking the fastest swimmers for relays, or even not picking the fastest swimmers for individual events. What some non-meet examples that people have seen in person or their kid told them?

NP but examples I’ve seen over many years:
-not letting them work out in the lane that fits their pace
-not putting them on relays
-not giving corrections but giving them to everyone else
-accusing them of cutting sets short, etc when they didn’t but letting the favorites get away with leaving the wall late, ducking behind the rest of the lane to skip laps, etc.

What are examples of favoritism vs. not? I believe it, just curious for examples. Like A meets I’ve read things like not picking the fastest swimmers for relays, or even not picking the fastest swimmers for individual events. What some non-meet examples that people have seen in person or their kid told them?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People become favorites because they are fast, they are not fast because they are favorites. If your swimmer is mediocre all the attention in the world isn’t going to change that. Sorry to burst your bubble on that one.

Op here. My post was inspired so to speak from the coach in a private plane thread.

People there were saying that the times speak for themselves and favoritism can’t happen in swimming.

A coach can totally discourage a child in every sport, including swimming, and make them hate it. A coach could also favor certain children, treat them better and design practices to suit those kids and their needs moreso than others.

A swimmer doesn’t become a favorite because they’re fast. However, even if that’s the reason, it’s still unfair and unethical to all the other kids in the team.

You must be the owner of said private jet.

I have no affiliation with York or that coach, but I do know that he lives rent free in some heads here in DCUM land since you have created yet another thread about it. A coach can definitely discourage a swimmer, generally though it’s the kid that spends most of their time in the bathroom to skip sets, talks when the coach is explaining the set or is otherwise not engaged and paying attention. The attentive kids and the ones who act like they want to be there get positive reinforcement. But in terms of truly being a coach’s favorite, come on, like in any sport it’s usually the kids that perform the best. Coaches may have a soft spot for the kid that is earnest, loves the sport and tries hard even if they will never be elite, but I don’t know that you can call that favoritism. This is how life works, not just sports.

Agree. For most coaches / good coaches.

DD did have one summer swim coach who had really blatant favorites though (and she was a fast one for her age group and is always an earnest beaver kind of kid with practices). If you weren’t a fav you could definitely tell. She switched teams after a couple years because it was just so frustrating a dynamic.

This the same dynamic for my DC. Switching summer teams this year. DC is fast and a very good swimmer but not the one to be up the coaches butt. Winter club coach was more than happy to recruit DC for their summer team.