Anonymous
Post 05/15/2025 11:03     Subject: EWR only had 3 ATCs working when the goal was 14
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The EWR ATC moved to Philadelphia last summer to help retention- because ATC personnel couldn’t afford to live by Newark. This is an ongoing problem but it’s not all because of DOGE. Obviously it’s not being helped by the current state of the FAA.



They couldn't afford to live on Long Island. The ATC center for EWR, JFK, and LGA is located on Long Island.

Also, I kinda call BS on "could not afford." ATCs get paid very well relative to other federal employees. They can't afford a house in a top-tier school district and a SAH wife for 20 years. Neither can any other federal or private sector employee outside the top 5% of incomes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ATC/comments/17w6za1/how_does_the_pay_scale_work/


Reddit is not a reliable source.
The approximate medianannual wage for air traffic control specialists is $127,805, according to the FAA.

The salaries for entree-level traffic control positions increase after the completion of every new training phase. Other factors determining the salary of a controller includes experience, location of the facility and the complexity of the airspace

https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/2025/05/07/air-traffic-controller-how-much-does-it-pay-job-requirements/83496547007/

Starting ATC make $61,042 to $71,216 a year. This is about what you can make starting in the trades- plumber, electrician, heavy equipment operator, etc. The trades track ATC salaries in the later years also. About the same amount of hours. ATC usually work 6 days a week. Also law enforcement in wealthier areas.

Before Trump they would only have senior high rated ATC in high traffic urban settings.


$128 median base wage? Ok, now add 37% locality for Long Island. Plus all the overtime and other supplements. If they are at $128K base wage on LI, they are clearing $200K.

The problem with the ATC career track is that (1) it's a (largely white) boys network and (2) lots of issues getting fully trained up because Congress can't get its act together.

That Reddit thread is more accurate than inaccurate.


Only a few senior ATC make over 128k. These are the ones Trump is firing. This is how private businesses are run. Fire older high price employees and hire new employees at 1/2 the price.
Anonymous
Post 05/15/2025 10:53     Subject: EWR only had 3 ATCs working when the goal was 14
Anonymous wrote:And, of course, representing the Party of Me, transportation secretary changes his wife’s flight. F these guys. They are all the worst humans.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/may/14/newark-airport-safety-transportation-secretary-flight


I give many government functions six more months before things really start up break down in ways that can't be written off easily.

Musk got everything he wanted and then got out before the problems start to stack up.


Anonymous
Post 05/15/2025 01:04     Subject: EWR only had 3 ATCs working when the goal was 14
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The EWR ATC moved to Philadelphia last summer to help retention- because ATC personnel couldn’t afford to live by Newark. This is an ongoing problem but it’s not all because of DOGE. Obviously it’s not being helped by the current state of the FAA.



They couldn't afford to live on Long Island. The ATC center for EWR, JFK, and LGA is located on Long Island.

Also, I kinda call BS on "could not afford." ATCs get paid very well relative to other federal employees. They can't afford a house in a top-tier school district and a SAH wife for 20 years. Neither can any other federal or private sector employee outside the top 5% of incomes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ATC/comments/17w6za1/how_does_the_pay_scale_work/


The government has to pay market rates. It doesn’t matter what you think they deserve or is enough. Not enough people are willing to take the job at the rates offered so they are by definition too low.


Trump can issue an EO and tell them to work for free. So no the government does not have to paid market rates.


An Executive Order is not law, its a memo, or guidance. A president cannot just force someone to work for free.


It is law if the Congress refuses to do anything.
Anonymous
Post 05/15/2025 01:03     Subject: EWR only had 3 ATCs working when the goal was 14
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The EWR ATC moved to Philadelphia last summer to help retention- because ATC personnel couldn’t afford to live by Newark. This is an ongoing problem but it’s not all because of DOGE. Obviously it’s not being helped by the current state of the FAA.



They couldn't afford to live on Long Island. The ATC center for EWR, JFK, and LGA is located on Long Island.

Also, I kinda call BS on "could not afford." ATCs get paid very well relative to other federal employees. They can't afford a house in a top-tier school district and a SAH wife for 20 years. Neither can any other federal or private sector employee outside the top 5% of incomes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ATC/comments/17w6za1/how_does_the_pay_scale_work/


The government has to pay market rates. It doesn’t matter what you think they deserve or is enough. Not enough people are willing to take the job at the rates offered so they are by definition too low.


Trump can issue an EO and tell them to work for free. So no the government does not have to paid market rates.


It's funny that you think anyone in America would work for free, or that people would be willing to put their family's safety in the hands of impoverished, worn down, unpaid ATCs.


It is funny you think Trump can’t do this. You either work for free or go to a prison camp. This is what conservatism is now.
Anonymous
Post 05/14/2025 17:56     Subject: EWR only had 3 ATCs working when the goal was 14
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The EWR ATC moved to Philadelphia last summer to help retention- because ATC personnel couldn’t afford to live by Newark. This is an ongoing problem but it’s not all because of DOGE. Obviously it’s not being helped by the current state of the FAA.



They couldn't afford to live on Long Island. The ATC center for EWR, JFK, and LGA is located on Long Island.

Also, I kinda call BS on "could not afford." ATCs get paid very well relative to other federal employees. They can't afford a house in a top-tier school district and a SAH wife for 20 years. Neither can any other federal or private sector employee outside the top 5% of incomes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ATC/comments/17w6za1/how_does_the_pay_scale_work/


The government has to pay market rates. It doesn’t matter what you think they deserve or is enough. Not enough people are willing to take the job at the rates offered so they are by definition too low.


Trump can issue an EO and tell them to work for free. So no the government does not have to paid market rates.


It's funny that you think anyone in America would work for free, or that people would be willing to put their family's safety in the hands of impoverished, worn down, unpaid ATCs.
Anonymous
Post 05/14/2025 16:41     Subject: EWR only had 3 ATCs working when the goal was 14
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The EWR ATC moved to Philadelphia last summer to help retention- because ATC personnel couldn’t afford to live by Newark. This is an ongoing problem but it’s not all because of DOGE. Obviously it’s not being helped by the current state of the FAA.



They couldn't afford to live on Long Island. The ATC center for EWR, JFK, and LGA is located on Long Island.

Also, I kinda call BS on "could not afford." ATCs get paid very well relative to other federal employees. They can't afford a house in a top-tier school district and a SAH wife for 20 years. Neither can any other federal or private sector employee outside the top 5% of incomes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ATC/comments/17w6za1/how_does_the_pay_scale_work/


The government has to pay market rates. It doesn’t matter what you think they deserve or is enough. Not enough people are willing to take the job at the rates offered so they are by definition too low.


Trump can issue an EO and tell them to work for free. So no the government does not have to paid market rates.


An Executive Order is not law, its a memo, or guidance. A president cannot just force someone to work for free.
Anonymous
Post 05/14/2025 16:35     Subject: EWR only had 3 ATCs working when the goal was 14
And, of course, representing the Party of Me, transportation secretary changes his wife’s flight. F these guys. They are all the worst humans.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/may/14/newark-airport-safety-transportation-secretary-flight
Anonymous
Post 05/14/2025 16:00     Subject: Re:EWR only had 3 ATCs working when the goal was 14
DOGE fired FAA safety staff, including the people who fix things when they break. Which is what's happening at Newark. This is 100% on Trump
https://apnews.com/article/faa-firings-trump-doge-safety-airlines-27390c6a7aac58063652302df5a243d3
Anonymous
Post 05/14/2025 14:23     Subject: EWR only had 3 ATCs working when the goal was 14
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The EWR ATC moved to Philadelphia last summer to help retention- because ATC personnel couldn’t afford to live by Newark. This is an ongoing problem but it’s not all because of DOGE. Obviously it’s not being helped by the current state of the FAA.



They couldn't afford to live on Long Island. The ATC center for EWR, JFK, and LGA is located on Long Island.

Also, I kinda call BS on "could not afford." ATCs get paid very well relative to other federal employees. They can't afford a house in a top-tier school district and a SAH wife for 20 years. Neither can any other federal or private sector employee outside the top 5% of incomes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ATC/comments/17w6za1/how_does_the_pay_scale_work/


Reddit is not a reliable source.
The approximate medianannual wage for air traffic control specialists is $127,805, according to the FAA.

The salaries for entree-level traffic control positions increase after the completion of every new training phase. Other factors determining the salary of a controller includes experience, location of the facility and the complexity of the airspace

https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/2025/05/07/air-traffic-controller-how-much-does-it-pay-job-requirements/83496547007/

Starting ATC make $61,042 to $71,216 a year. This is about what you can make starting in the trades- plumber, electrician, heavy equipment operator, etc. The trades track ATC salaries in the later years also. About the same amount of hours. ATC usually work 6 days a week. Also law enforcement in wealthier areas.

Before Trump they would only have senior high rated ATC in high traffic urban settings.


$128 median base wage? Ok, now add 37% locality for Long Island. Plus all the overtime and other supplements. If they are at $128K base wage on LI, they are clearing $200K.

The problem with the ATC career track is that (1) it's a (largely white) boys network and (2) lots of issues getting fully trained up because Congress can't get its act together.

That Reddit thread is more accurate than inaccurate.
Anonymous
Post 05/14/2025 14:11     Subject: EWR only had 3 ATCs working when the goal was 14
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The EWR ATC moved to Philadelphia last summer to help retention- because ATC personnel couldn’t afford to live by Newark. This is an ongoing problem but it’s not all because of DOGE. Obviously it’s not being helped by the current state of the FAA.



They couldn't afford to live on Long Island. The ATC center for EWR, JFK, and LGA is located on Long Island.

Also, I kinda call BS on "could not afford." ATCs get paid very well relative to other federal employees. They can't afford a house in a top-tier school district and a SAH wife for 20 years. Neither can any other federal or private sector employee outside the top 5% of incomes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ATC/comments/17w6za1/how_does_the_pay_scale_work/


Reddit is not a reliable source.
The approximate medianannual wage for air traffic control specialists is $127,805, according to the FAA.

The salaries for entree-level traffic control positions increase after the completion of every new training phase. Other factors determining the salary of a controller includes experience, location of the facility and the complexity of the airspace

https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/2025/05/07/air-traffic-controller-how-much-does-it-pay-job-requirements/83496547007/

Starting ATC make $61,042 to $71,216 a year. This is about what you can make starting in the trades- plumber, electrician, heavy equipment operator, etc. The trades track ATC salaries in the later years also. About the same amount of hours. ATC usually work 6 days a week. Also law enforcement in wealthier areas.

Before Trump they would only have senior high rated ATC in high traffic urban settings.
Anonymous
Post 05/14/2025 13:54     Subject: EWR only had 3 ATCs working when the goal was 14
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The EWR ATC moved to Philadelphia last summer to help retention- because ATC personnel couldn’t afford to live by Newark. This is an ongoing problem but it’s not all because of DOGE. Obviously it’s not being helped by the current state of the FAA.



They couldn't afford to live on Long Island. The ATC center for EWR, JFK, and LGA is located on Long Island.

Also, I kinda call BS on "could not afford." ATCs get paid very well relative to other federal employees. They can't afford a house in a top-tier school district and a SAH wife for 20 years. Neither can any other federal or private sector employee outside the top 5% of incomes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ATC/comments/17w6za1/how_does_the_pay_scale_work/


The government has to pay market rates. It doesn’t matter what you think they deserve or is enough. Not enough people are willing to take the job at the rates offered so they are by definition too low.


Trump can issue an EO and tell them to work for free. So no the government does not have to paid market rates.
Anonymous
Post 05/14/2025 11:50     Subject: EWR only had 3 ATCs working when the goal was 14
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The EWR ATC moved to Philadelphia last summer to help retention- because ATC personnel couldn’t afford to live by Newark. This is an ongoing problem but it’s not all because of DOGE. Obviously it’s not being helped by the current state of the FAA.



They couldn't afford to live on Long Island. The ATC center for EWR, JFK, and LGA is located on Long Island.

Also, I kinda call BS on "could not afford." ATCs get paid very well relative to other federal employees. They can't afford a house in a top-tier school district and a SAH wife for 20 years. Neither can any other federal or private sector employee outside the top 5% of incomes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ATC/comments/17w6za1/how_does_the_pay_scale_work/


The government has to pay market rates. It doesn’t matter what you think they deserve or is enough. Not enough people are willing to take the job at the rates offered so they are by definition too low.
Anonymous
Post 05/14/2025 10:59     Subject: EWR only had 3 ATCs working when the goal was 14
Anonymous wrote:The EWR ATC moved to Philadelphia last summer to help retention- because ATC personnel couldn’t afford to live by Newark. This is an ongoing problem but it’s not all because of DOGE. Obviously it’s not being helped by the current state of the FAA.



They couldn't afford to live on Long Island. The ATC center for EWR, JFK, and LGA is located on Long Island.

Also, I kinda call BS on "could not afford." ATCs get paid very well relative to other federal employees. They can't afford a house in a top-tier school district and a SAH wife for 20 years. Neither can any other federal or private sector employee outside the top 5% of incomes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ATC/comments/17w6za1/how_does_the_pay_scale_work/
Anonymous
Post 05/14/2025 08:15     Subject: EWR only had 3 ATCs working when the goal was 14
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The EWR ATC moved to Philadelphia last summer to help retention- because ATC personnel couldn’t afford to live by Newark. This is an ongoing problem but it’s not all because of DOGE. Obviously it’s not being helped by the current state of the FAA.


And I guess the obvious solution of raising salaries for those near EWR was ruled out? because?


They already get locality pay.

The move was a double edged sword because not all of the existing ATC were happy about being uprooted.
Anonymous
Post 05/14/2025 08:09     Subject: EWR only had 3 ATCs working when the goal was 14
Anonymous wrote:The EWR ATC moved to Philadelphia last summer to help retention- because ATC personnel couldn’t afford to live by Newark. This is an ongoing problem but it’s not all because of DOGE. Obviously it’s not being helped by the current state of the FAA.


And I guess the obvious solution of raising salaries for those near EWR was ruled out? because?