Anonymous
05/07/2025 08:26
Subject: Telling My Kids About Their IVF Story??
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Op get a life and stop trolling. Do share the “scientific method” available to assess the IQ of a fetus.
There are companies that run polygenic scores for IQ on embryo DNA data. A few people have already done this and I’m one of these people. This practice is not common yet, but will likely become more common over time. This is a serious question and I’m asking for answers on what age it’s appropriate to tell the kids about it.
Oh really? Name them and cite the evidence behind them. And then go out and find something productive to do with your life other than trolling.
NP. This seems to be latest bandwagon for the wealthy:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/04/01/opinion/ivf-gene-selection-fertility.html?unlocked_article_code=1.FU8.Pn-E.gU7a6PzjK1_k&smid=url-share
Did you actually read the article you posted? No one is claiming to screen embryos for IQ. One company has said they are looking at genetic factors that could cause intellectual disabilities but that’s not the same thing, and that is just what they’re claiming to do. there’s no evidence in the form of peer reviewed scientific research for any of this.
You didn’t read the article closely enough. A company named Helioplex is offering it and Orchid might be offering the service as well.
Oh wow-a company called Orchid that no one has ever heard of might be offering this service-how exciting! Where’s the evidence that these services will do what is promised? Do you believe every claim a company makes? If so, I have a bridge to sell you from my own company…
You didn’t read the research papers I posted earlier. There is no fundamental law or rule that prevents polygenic selection from being feasible. Farmers have already been using polygenic scores for genetic selection in other mammals for agricultural purposes for 10+ years. Almost every behavioral and cognitive trait has a genetic component and therefore these traits can be selected for as long as the genetic data is good enough. If you are morally opposed to genetic selection and don’t want to do it, that’s fine. However, the reality is that this technology is already. and it is only going to become more effective over time. There are thousands of peer reviewed research papers on polygenic scores for a wide variety of traits.
Anonymous
05/07/2025 07:48
Subject: Telling My Kids About Their IVF Story??
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Op get a life and stop trolling. Do share the “scientific method” available to assess the IQ of a fetus.
There are companies that run polygenic scores for IQ on embryo DNA data. A few people have already done this and I’m one of these people. This practice is not common yet, but will likely become more common over time. This is a serious question and I’m asking for answers on what age it’s appropriate to tell the kids about it.
Oh really? Name them and cite the evidence behind them. And then go out and find something productive to do with your life other than trolling.
NP. This seems to be latest bandwagon for the wealthy:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/04/01/opinion/ivf-gene-selection-fertility.html?unlocked_article_code=1.FU8.Pn-E.gU7a6PzjK1_k&smid=url-share
Did you actually read the article you posted? No one is claiming to screen embryos for IQ. One company has said they are looking at genetic factors that could cause intellectual disabilities but that’s not the same thing, and that is just what they’re claiming to do. there’s no evidence in the form of peer reviewed scientific research for any of this.
You didn’t read the article closely enough. A company named Helioplex is offering it and Orchid might be offering the service as well.
Oh wow-a company called Orchid that no one has ever heard of might be offering this service-how exciting! Where’s the evidence that these services will do what is promised? Do you believe every claim a company makes? If so, I have a bridge to sell you from my own company…
Anonymous
05/07/2025 07:45
Subject: Telling My Kids About Their IVF Story??
Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the pull to share this.
I mean if it is the result of a genetic condition that impacts fertility and your children encounter or are expected to encounter it as an adult, sure. But garden variety, non-heridetary trouble conveiving seems not important to share with children (child or adult) - you don't share that they were conveived in a bed or in a car or in a petri dish, right? It's uncomfortable and unnecessary, but up to you, I guess.
As for the IQ screening part: do not share. This could really backfire on you if your kids are hurt or offended, and if you have more kids with the lower ranked embryos, you'll have opened a pandora's box that is really hurtful and controversial. Do NOT share this. It is dangerous ammunition that will be out of your hands once you do.
Yes. That will really set off sibling rivalry to know the oldest was "best" and "smartest" from the embryo stage.
Anonymous
05/07/2025 07:40
Subject: Telling My Kids About Their IVF Story??
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Had a friend who talked about it constantly from the time her kids were born. It was a huge part of who she was as a mother. I just saw it as a means to and end so not a big deal for me. I only told my DC when DC took an ethics class in HS that involved a discussion of the ethics of IVF and other similar topics. DC did not seem to care (likely because so many in DC's friend group already knew they were IVF babies).
Hmm that suggests that I should tell them earlier and they probably won’t care. I’m surprised anyone things IVF is unethical at this point though, that’s so backwards.
Most people don't think IVF is unethical. People think selecting for IQ, sex, and other traits is unethical.
Regulating IVF at all is a very slippery slope, that will ultimately harm families and prevent people from having children. The line between medical and non-medical genetic screening is very fuzzy in many circumstances. Is it unethical for someone screen for a hereditary disease that causes people to die in their 30s? most people would say no. What about a gene that triples your risk for Alzheimer’s in old age? IMO, these decisions are best left to individual families because the government making that decision for people is even worse.
I agree with you that this is not the government’s place to regulate. But there are plenty of things that I think should continue to be legal that I also think are unethical.
Anonymous
05/07/2025 07:31
Subject: Telling My Kids About Their IVF Story??
I don't understand the pull to share this.
I mean if it is the result of a genetic condition that impacts fertility and your children encounter or are expected to encounter it as an adult, sure. But garden variety, non-heridetary trouble conveiving seems not important to share with children (child or adult) - you don't share that they were conveived in a bed or in a car or in a petri dish, right? It's uncomfortable and unnecessary, but up to you, I guess.
As for the IQ screening part: do not share. This could really backfire on you if your kids are hurt or offended, and if you have more kids with the lower ranked embryos, you'll have opened a pandora's box that is really hurtful and controversial. Do NOT share this. It is dangerous ammunition that will be out of your hands once you do.
I mean if it is the result of a genetic condition that impacts fertility and your children encounter or are expected to encounter it as an adult, sure. But garden variety, non-heridetary trouble conveiving seems not important to share with children (child or adult) - you don't share that they were conveived in a bed or in a car or in a petri dish, right? It's uncomfortable and unnecessary, but up to you, I guess.
As for the IQ screening part: do not share. This could really backfire on you if your kids are hurt or offended, and if you have more kids with the lower ranked embryos, you'll have opened a pandora's box that is really hurtful and controversial. Do NOT share this. It is dangerous ammunition that will be out of your hands once you do.
Anonymous
05/07/2025 07:25
Subject: Telling My Kids About Their IVF Story??
Anonymous wrote:If I found out my parents screened because they only wanted smart babies, I think I would worry that they would abandon me if I ever had a head injury,
That is an interesting point. It’s more nuanced than that in the sense of that we did only one round of IVF and ended up with multiple genetically normal embryos. So we decided to transfer the embryos with higher expected IQ score first. We didn’t set out to due IVF with the purpose of selecting for IQ, it was an incidental thing that happened after we did it. Thank you for your thoughtful comment, I will definitely think about that concern more.
Anonymous
05/07/2025 07:20
Subject: Telling My Kids About Their IVF Story??
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Op get a life and stop trolling. Do share the “scientific method” available to assess the IQ of a fetus.
There are companies that run polygenic scores for IQ on embryo DNA data. A few people have already done this and I’m one of these people. This practice is not common yet, but will likely become more common over time. This is a serious question and I’m asking for answers on what age it’s appropriate to tell the kids about it.
Oh really? Name them and cite the evidence behind them. And then go out and find something productive to do with your life other than trolling.
NP. This seems to be latest bandwagon for the wealthy:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/04/01/opinion/ivf-gene-selection-fertility.html?unlocked_article_code=1.FU8.Pn-E.gU7a6PzjK1_k&smid=url-share
Did you actually read the article you posted? No one is claiming to screen embryos for IQ. One company has said they are looking at genetic factors that could cause intellectual disabilities but that’s not the same thing, and that is just what they’re claiming to do. there’s no evidence in the form of peer reviewed scientific research for any of this.
Where did I say there was? I thought it was obvious that this is bunk.
There is a decent amount of research about polygenic scores. They have done studies to validate the selection methods using sibling pairs from biobank data. For sibling pairs where one has a disease and another does not, they can identify which sibling is affected by the disease more often than random chance. The odd of correctly identifying the sibling (out of a pair) for polygenic diseases using only genetic data ranges from 1.5/1 to 2/1 for most of these diseases. So it is a weighted coin flip, that is not guaranteed to work (at the individual) but it is better than picking randomly. The gains from selection increase with the number of embryos.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-69927-7/tables/1
Dl o
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34635206/
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-69927-7
Anonymous
05/06/2025 22:37
Subject: Telling My Kids About Their IVF Story??
There are worse things than being average intelligence. You could be shallow.
Anonymous
05/06/2025 22:20
Subject: Telling My Kids About Their IVF Story??
If I found out my parents screened because they only wanted smart babies, I think I would worry that they would abandon me if I ever had a head injury,
Anonymous
05/06/2025 22:18
Subject: Telling My Kids About Their IVF Story??
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Op get a life and stop trolling. Do share the “scientific method” available to assess the IQ of a fetus.
There are companies that run polygenic scores for IQ on embryo DNA data. A few people have already done this and I’m one of these people. This practice is not common yet, but will likely become more common over time. This is a serious question and I’m asking for answers on what age it’s appropriate to tell the kids about it.
Oh really? Name them and cite the evidence behind them. And then go out and find something productive to do with your life other than trolling.
NP. This seems to be latest bandwagon for the wealthy:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/04/01/opinion/ivf-gene-selection-fertility.html?unlocked_article_code=1.FU8.Pn-E.gU7a6PzjK1_k&smid=url-share
Did you actually read the article you posted? No one is claiming to screen embryos for IQ. One company has said they are looking at genetic factors that could cause intellectual disabilities but that’s not the same thing, and that is just what they’re claiming to do. there’s no evidence in the form of peer reviewed scientific research for any of this.
Where did I say there was? I thought it was obvious that this is bunk.
Anonymous
05/06/2025 22:12
Subject: Telling My Kids About Their IVF Story??
There’s only one reliable way to screen embryos (IVF or otherwise) for IQ — don’t be a moron and opt not to procreate with a moron. Seeing how you’re choosing to spend your limited time on this earth trolling random strangers on the internet, you should have a pretty strong case for demanding your money back for the “polygenic testing.”
Anonymous
05/06/2025 22:05
Subject: Telling My Kids About Their IVF Story??
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Op get a life and stop trolling. Do share the “scientific method” available to assess the IQ of a fetus.
There are companies that run polygenic scores for IQ on embryo DNA data. A few people have already done this and I’m one of these people. This practice is not common yet, but will likely become more common over time. This is a serious question and I’m asking for answers on what age it’s appropriate to tell the kids about it.
Oh really? Name them and cite the evidence behind them. And then go out and find something productive to do with your life other than trolling.
NP. This seems to be latest bandwagon for the wealthy:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/04/01/opinion/ivf-gene-selection-fertility.html?unlocked_article_code=1.FU8.Pn-E.gU7a6PzjK1_k&smid=url-share
Did you actually read the article you posted? No one is claiming to screen embryos for IQ. One company has said they are looking at genetic factors that could cause intellectual disabilities but that’s not the same thing, and that is just what they’re claiming to do. there’s no evidence in the form of peer reviewed scientific research for any of this.
You didn’t read the article closely enough. A company named Helioplex is offering it and Orchid might be offering the service as well.
Anonymous
05/06/2025 21:54
Subject: Telling My Kids About Their IVF Story??
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Op get a life and stop trolling. Do share the “scientific method” available to assess the IQ of a fetus.
There are companies that run polygenic scores for IQ on embryo DNA data. A few people have already done this and I’m one of these people. This practice is not common yet, but will likely become more common over time. This is a serious question and I’m asking for answers on what age it’s appropriate to tell the kids about it.
Oh really? Name them and cite the evidence behind them. And then go out and find something productive to do with your life other than trolling.
NP. This seems to be latest bandwagon for the wealthy:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/04/01/opinion/ivf-gene-selection-fertility.html?unlocked_article_code=1.FU8.Pn-E.gU7a6PzjK1_k&smid=url-share
Did you actually read the article you posted? No one is claiming to screen embryos for IQ. One company has said they are looking at genetic factors that could cause intellectual disabilities but that’s not the same thing, and that is just what they’re claiming to do. there’s no evidence in the form of peer reviewed scientific research for any of this.
Anonymous
05/06/2025 21:51
Subject: Telling My Kids About Their IVF Story??
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Op get a life and stop trolling. Do share the “scientific method” available to assess the IQ of a fetus.
There are companies that run polygenic scores for IQ on embryo DNA data. A few people have already done this and I’m one of these people. This practice is not common yet, but will likely become more common over time. This is a serious question and I’m asking for answers on what age it’s appropriate to tell the kids about it.
So you threw away the low IQ embryos?
Still have them. Just transferred embryos with a higher expected IQ score first. Not sure how many kids I want at this point, so still have the rest.
Anonymous
05/06/2025 21:49
Subject: Telling My Kids About Their IVF Story??
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Had a friend who talked about it constantly from the time her kids were born. It was a huge part of who she was as a mother. I just saw it as a means to and end so not a big deal for me. I only told my DC when DC took an ethics class in HS that involved a discussion of the ethics of IVF and other similar topics. DC did not seem to care (likely because so many in DC's friend group already knew they were IVF babies).
Hmm that suggests that I should tell them earlier and they probably won’t care. I’m surprised anyone things IVF is unethical at this point though, that’s so backwards.
Most people don't think IVF is unethical. People think selecting for IQ, sex, and other traits is unethical.
Regulating IVF at all is a very slippery slope, that will ultimately harm families and prevent people from having children. The line between medical and non-medical genetic screening is very fuzzy in many circumstances. Is it unethical for someone screen for a hereditary disease that causes people to die in their 30s? most people would say no. What about a gene that triples your risk for Alzheimer’s in old age? IMO, these decisions are best left to individual families because the government making that decision for people is even worse.
There are many things in life that are legal but nevertheless unethical. This is one of them.
Alright you do you. I respectfully disagree. Increasing the odds that’s my kids are gainfully employed and have a longer life expectancy is not unethical.
And then what do you do when they don't live up to their expected "potential"? How are they supposed to feel about it?
I have no expectations for them, I just decide to stack the odds in their favor a little bit.