Anonymous wrote:Sorry but as a Catholic I see vocation instead of vocational school and I immediately think, “wow, that’s a rare breed to have a vocation these days.”

So maybe be careful how you use that word in certain contexts/or around Catholics, or else you’ll end up with old ladies praying for you and a priest in your kitchen after schoo.

Protestants (Martin Luther was big on this) turned the word "vocation" into it's more modern meaning of "work" because they were big on the idea that God could call you into secular work as well as religious. Hence the divide.

Anonymous wrote:College graduates (you can Groq or GPT this) have better outcomes than non-college grads across the Board on average (health, finance, family stability) & there is an ROI for getting a degree. That being said, it is easy to come up with anecdotes for non-degreed success stories and vice versa.

It was leaked recently an email from Peter Thiel that the tech titans are nervous with the unaffordability of college & housing that this generation may become disenchanted with capitalism (putting the position of Silicon Valley concentrating wealth at risk). I believe this resulted in a push across the 'manosphere' against elite universities + a pro-tradie propaganda push (I think the trades are great, but the data tell us you are better off with a degree).

If there is a real passion for the trades, learning a trade while attending a commuter school/community college could be a better option.

This is my child - currently at community college and in training to be a luthier. Definitely a niche trade, but it fits with their interests and strengths, and they'll eventually have a bachelor's degree, although likely a few years after their peers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Dad’s best friend was an emergency room position.

In his later years, he and his wife would rent a condo for six weeks on Sanibel Island. He could not afford to buy a condo there. The neighbor was a retired plumber. He owned three condos in the building. My emergency room doctor friend said he should’ve been a plumber and not an ER doctor and he would’ve been able to afford to buy a condo.

Then he did not understand how to save, at all. We make a ton in medicine. ER docs make over 350k and lowest-paid primary care often make 250k. OB and surgeons are easily above 450k. Some docs choose part time to see their kids and "settle" for 70% of FT rates.
Two doc families or doc-lawyer, doc-dentist families are the norm among my doc friends. I only know one doc friend out who has a stay at home partner. We all could easily afford a condo if we wanted one, and some have grand second homes. The others have put our money into private k-12 and private college for 2-3 kids each. And that is after paying off med loans, which over half of us had.

As someone who is the first college graduate in a family of trades ppl, I call BS on the plumber. And my family owned the business & was successful but vacations were driving not own-three-vacation-properties level. Even when the eventually sold the business for retirement, it maybe would have been enough for 1 beach vacation property if it hadn’t needed to be split 3 ways.

Anonymous wrote:My son is halfway through college and doing well. He wants to finish but is now interested in law enforcement. I’m glad he wants to compete his undergrad; it definitely can’t hurt.

Most good police departments require a BA to get hired/ admitted into police academy. Several require a masters in criminal justice to advance.

My son is halfway through college and doing well. He wants to finish but is now interested in law enforcement. I’m glad he wants to compete his undergrad; it definitely can’t hurt.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My nephew started college at a large state flagship during the pandemic. He couldn’t live in the dorms his first year (lived at home and did all classes online) so no chance for a real social scene. He was doing well academically but didn’t enjoy his classes/social experience.

He pivoted to attending a trade school to become an electrician. What a wonderful experience and super affordable (my sister was unable to save any money for college). He can work for himself, a small business, or a construction company. This summer he will work for a construction company. He makes really good money and is debt-free (he worked as a server at a restaurant to pay his tuition).

As a high school counselor - I love this option if a student has the interest!

It's a great option. Just keep in mind that many trades are hard on your body and it becomes increasingly difficult to "do the trade for 8-10 hours per day" once youre mid 40s. So having a Business degree or some goal to own the company in the future can be a great path as well that allows you to still work until l65 in an area you like

Sitting in a desk chair all day is terrible for your body, too.

True but my brother had a lucrative job doing butchering and my ended up with back problems so severe he was in constant pain. He went back to school and does IT now.

Anonymous wrote:My son is super bright but thinks the idea of working in an office all day is hellacious. Not sure what he'll end up doing.

My spouse is an engineer and he spends a lot of time either in the lab or in the manufacturing facility.

I have seen people pair trades with engineering; they kind of go hand in hand

College graduates (you can Groq or GPT this) have better outcomes than non-college grads across the Board on average (health, finance, family stability) & there is an ROI for getting a degree. That being said, it is easy to come up with anecdotes for non-degreed success stories and vice versa.

It was leaked recently an email from Peter Thiel that the tech titans are nervous with the unaffordability of college & housing that this generation may become disenchanted with capitalism (putting the position of Silicon Valley concentrating wealth at risk). I believe this resulted in a push across the 'manosphere' against elite universities + a pro-tradie propaganda push (I think the trades are great, but the data tell us you are better off with a degree).

If there is a real passion for the trades, learning a trade while attending a commuter school/community college could be a better option.

Anonymous wrote:My son is super bright but thinks the idea of working in an office all day is hellacious. Not sure what he'll end up doing.

Physical therapist

My son is super bright but thinks the idea of working in an office all day is hellacious. Not sure what he'll end up doing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My nephew started college at a large state flagship during the pandemic. He couldn’t live in the dorms his first year (lived at home and did all classes online) so no chance for a real social scene. He was doing well academically but didn’t enjoy his classes/social experience.

He pivoted to attending a trade school to become an electrician. What a wonderful experience and super affordable (my sister was unable to save any money for college). He can work for himself, a small business, or a construction company. This summer he will work for a construction company. He makes really good money and is debt-free (he worked as a server at a restaurant to pay his tuition).

As a high school counselor - I love this option if a student has the interest!

It's a great option. Just keep in mind that many trades are hard on your body and it becomes increasingly difficult to "do the trade for 8-10 hours per day" once youre mid 40s. So having a Business degree or some goal to own the company in the future can be a great path as well that allows you to still work until l65 in an area you like

Sitting in a desk chair all day is terrible for your body, too.

You are describing my kid and he’s looking at various vocational programs and yes, wants to eventually start his own business. But it too follow a passion and we plan on paying their on for that. It will be significantly less than a private 4 year college but it’s what he wants to do.

It’s a little different since he’s from a family with many in various vocational trades. He’s grown up going to job sites with relatives and wants to do this because it something he loves. Think along the lines of being an electrician or hvac.

I would never push my kid into this or an any college program, but support them in what they want to do. We are encouraging him to get at least his associates degree with his initial certification.

Anonymous wrote:Two professional family. DMV.
DD 11th with very high stats. Public HS.
Unique ECs, part time job, leadership, varsity sport.
Follow their passion, nothing done just for college apps.

Cost of college being ridiculous (likely won't qualify for FA) + the rat race sucks + crazy competition every step of the way in schooling and career....
(Kid is more STEMy, not interested in Wall St or CS or medicine)
-Anyone ever consider a vocation or small business might be better?

Take a full ride somewhere less selective. Like presidential elite at Bama or the many full ride for NMFs. Or the selective full rides at state schools like UGA, UMD, etc

Anonymous wrote:My Dad’s best friend was an emergency room position.

In his later years, he and his wife would rent a condo for six weeks on Sanibel Island. He could not afford to buy a condo there. The neighbor was a retired plumber. He owned three condos in the building. My emergency room doctor friend said he should’ve been a plumber and not an ER doctor and he would’ve been able to afford to buy a condo.

Then he did not understand how to save, at all. We make a ton in medicine. ER docs make over 350k and lowest-paid primary care often make 250k. OB and surgeons are easily above 450k. Some docs choose part time to see their kids and "settle" for 70% of FT rates.
Two doc families or doc-lawyer, doc-dentist families are the norm among my doc friends. I only know one doc friend out who has a stay at home partner. We all could easily afford a condo if we wanted one, and some have grand second homes. The others have put our money into private k-12 and private college for 2-3 kids each. And that is after paying off med loans, which over half of us had.