Yale is actually super competitive. The academics have been watered down so all the competition gets channeled into clubs and activities outside the classroom. If your DD loves academic pursuits for the sake of learning Swat is a much better choice.

Both are great schools. Among the Ivies, I really like Yale. But, personally, I think the "opens more doors" notion is a fallacy. The same high-achieving kid will be able to do whatever they want to do in the future at either school. And if there were employers who turn their nose up at an amazing school like Swarthmore, why would you want to work with such insufferable snobs anyway? In that vein, one advantage of Swat is that there will be a smaller percentage of kids who chose brand over fit. My DC is at another WASP and one of its best qualities is the brilliant-but-laid-back nature of the student body. That said, the majority of Yalies I've personally worked with have been pretty cool.

I think for an anxious and distractable kid the super safe environment of Swat would be nicer day to day than New Haven, especially as a young woman. The safety concerns of New Haven are just one more thing to be aware of. I think this kid sounds like a kid who would love Swat, though him sure Yale would work out fine if she went that route. I don’t think it’s fair to assume she’d ultimately have better outcomes though—individual attention and mentorship matter a lot and she might get more of that at Swat.

I went to a different Ivy but everyone I know who was happy at Yale is an extrovert or very flashy in other ways. Swarthmore is more intense academically but also more of an “academic village,” and it has the benefit of being near other schools and Philadelphia.

It is all about fit, OP. Don't force it.

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Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the input. She’s leaning Swarthmore. She did not like New Haven and the large intro classes. She felt like the Swarthmore students were more “like” her. I suspect she’ll choose there. I think she wants me to decide for her which I will NOT do. I tell her she must own her decision but there is no right or wrong one. She likes to work and she is not a big party person. We didn’t love the construction at Swarthmore but most of the campus is breathtaking.

Sounds like she is a great fit for Swat, but she will also find her people at Yale. Certainly plenty of hard-working kids who aren't party-oriented. I would say Swat is more intense though, just attracts that kind of kid. Does that feel right to her?

Agree Swat is intense but Yale is more competitive, if that makes sense. Is she the kind of kid who will be lost at a bigger school, and not show initiative in terms of finding internships, making connections with professors etc.? Or do you feel confident she'll find her way. If the latter, I'd lean Yale. If the former, Swat. SLACs really do offer a superior UG education, and your kid can take classes at Penn if wants to expand her options as she matures.

I do not feel confident she’ll find her way. She’s an anxious, socially immature kid with a gifted IQ and a high level of distractability. Personally, I think she would do better at Swarthmore. But to turn down her reachiest of reaches? Ugh, I almost wish she hadn’t been accepted! Lol.

My DD fits this description too and is thriving socially at Pomona (west coast version of Swat-they have an exchange program). Has made a lot of nice friends and will live in a suite next year with them. Lots of attention from professors and mentoring by older students which is really helpful and lessens her inherent anxiety. Save Ivy League for grad school and go to the lesser name for this intimate experience.

Sounds like my DD. She needs a smaller environment. Yale is uber competitive no matter what PP says.

+1 Yale is not the place to send an anxious and distractible kid. These are the kinds of kids who can end up miserable and fall through the cracks. She'll thrive in a smaller, more collaborative environment then the world will be her oyster for grad school.

Swarthmore. Being unhappy/lost, even at Yale, will close way more doors than going to Swat. Swat has a tight alumni community and lots of prestige among anyone who matters.

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Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the input. She’s leaning Swarthmore. She did not like New Haven and the large intro classes. She felt like the Swarthmore students were more “like” her. I suspect she’ll choose there. I think she wants me to decide for her which I will NOT do. I tell her she must own her decision but there is no right or wrong one. She likes to work and she is not a big party person. We didn’t love the construction at Swarthmore but most of the campus is breathtaking.

Sounds like she is a great fit for Swat, but she will also find her people at Yale. Certainly plenty of hard-working kids who aren't party-oriented. I would say Swat is more intense though, just attracts that kind of kid. Does that feel right to her?

Agree Swat is intense but Yale is more competitive, if that makes sense. Is she the kind of kid who will be lost at a bigger school, and not show initiative in terms of finding internships, making connections with professors etc.? Or do you feel confident she'll find her way. If the latter, I'd lean Yale. If the former, Swat. SLACs really do offer a superior UG education, and your kid can take classes at Penn if wants to expand her options as she matures.

I do not feel confident she’ll find her way. She’s an anxious, socially immature kid with a gifted IQ and a high level of distractability. Personally, I think she would do better at Swarthmore. But to turn down her reachiest of reaches? Ugh, I almost wish she hadn’t been accepted! Lol.

My DD fits this description too and is thriving socially at Pomona (west coast version of Swat-they have an exchange program). Has made a lot of nice friends and will live in a suite next year with them. Lots of attention from professors and mentoring by older students which is really helpful and lessens her inherent anxiety. Save Ivy League for grad school and go to the lesser name for this intimate experience.

Sounds like my DD. She needs a smaller environment. Yale is uber competitive no matter what PP says.

Anonymous wrote:Why not go to Swat UG and aim for Yale for grad school? That's the ideal.

For sure. And Swat will set up any kid beautifully for grad school. My kid chose a WASP, and I thought was very wise in stating Ivies were not a good fit for him for undergrad but will go for one for grad.

DC is a freshman at swarthmore. Yale was dream reach but did not get in. Ended up being a great school for her. Taking math classes and is also into arts. She's doing research with a professor already. Does not like parties so socially a good fit for her. Has made good friends but also likes to be by herself in nature and the campus has been an excellent respite for that. Regularly takes the train to explore nearby areas. Academics has been intense but has not found it too stressful and the environment has been very supportive. Goes to all the pirate sessions and the kids really do work together.

As far as construction, it moves around fast. Last year the construction was worse because they were still working on geothermal system. The new Martin Hall where a lot of the construction is, is supposed to open in Fall so that should resolve over the summer hopefully.

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Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the input. She’s leaning Swarthmore. She did not like New Haven and the large intro classes. She felt like the Swarthmore students were more “like” her. I suspect she’ll choose there. I think she wants me to decide for her which I will NOT do. I tell her she must own her decision but there is no right or wrong one. She likes to work and she is not a big party person. We didn’t love the construction at Swarthmore but most of the campus is breathtaking.

Sounds like she is a great fit for Swat, but she will also find her people at Yale. Certainly plenty of hard-working kids who aren't party-oriented. I would say Swat is more intense though, just attracts that kind of kid. Does that feel right to her?

Agree Swat is intense but Yale is more competitive, if that makes sense. Is she the kind of kid who will be lost at a bigger school, and not show initiative in terms of finding internships, making connections with professors etc.? Or do you feel confident she'll find her way. If the latter, I'd lean Yale. If the former, Swat. SLACs really do offer a superior UG education, and your kid can take classes at Penn if wants to expand her options as she matures.

I do not feel confident she’ll find her way. She’s an anxious, socially immature kid with a gifted IQ and a high level of distractability. Personally, I think she would do better at Swarthmore. But to turn down her reachiest of reaches? Ugh, I almost wish she hadn’t been accepted! Lol.

My DD fits this description too and is thriving socially at Pomona (west coast version of Swat-they have an exchange program). Has made a lot of nice friends and will live in a suite next year with them. Lots of attention from professors and mentoring by older students which is really helpful and lessens her inherent anxiety. Save Ivy League for grad school and go to the lesser name for this intimate experience.

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the input. She’s leaning Swarthmore. She did not like New Haven and the large intro classes. She felt like the Swarthmore students were more “like” her. I suspect she’ll choose there. I think she wants me to decide for her which I will NOT do. I tell her she must own her decision but there is no right or wrong one. She likes to work and she is not a big party person. We didn’t love the construction at Swarthmore but most of the campus is breathtaking.

OP, you are not alone. My daughter chose Amherst over Yale after bulldog days this past week but I felt like she was begging for me to tell her what to do. In the end, I knew just from her body language after both revisits what the right choice was but in no way did I want to steer her that way. Best of luck.

She went to Bulldog Days at Yale and Swatstruck at Swarthmore, yes? Did they not clarify the choice for her?

It’s her life, but I wouldn’t pass on Yale out of fear. Everyone there shows up with imposter syndrome. But there are many socially awkward introverts, the residential college system really breaks down social life into a manageable chunks, and Yale is incredibly musical.

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Anonymous wrote:DC is at Swat. Absolutely loves the math professors at Swat and says it is their favorite subject. Participates in music for fun though not as a major. Swat is personal and nurturing and the cohort bright and collaborative. Dorms are great, the food terrific. DC has no hankering for a single as it is a lot more fun with a roommate and from Yr.2 you typically apply with a friend. DC has grown a lot at Swat , more thoughtful, less reactive, better listening, socially confident.

If your focus for college is personal development for life and/or preparation for grad school you won't go wrong at Swat. Alumni I spoke to cherish their time at Swat and consider themselves very fortunate to have gone there. If your focus is pre-professional/job market, Yale has broader name recognition that also opens more employer doors with less effort.

Agree with this.

Yes, me too.