Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I’m sure they will be moving to the country that is gutting medical R&D and all of its health related regulatory agencies. And also is run by an anti-science blowhard who may well turn on a dime and start attacking them and their businesses.

Doesn't matter. US is by far the most important to every single pharma company's bottom line. Period. Pharma themselves can design quality standards, if needed.

so, the low paying manufacturing jobs will be here, which by the way, will be mostly automated, but the high paying scientists who work for pharma will be not in the US since scientists are leaving the US due to Trump's anti-science and anti-education policies.

Trump is determined to make the US into a second world country.

Generic meds in US is like 60-70% made in India. That's really all you need to know.

Current tariffs to India do NOT include Pharma sales and this is why. Should he change this, we are all in big ass trouble. Legit huge trouble and he knows it.

His tariffs raised have been actually very strategic. He has not upped them v Mexico and Canada given that he's already put them up first round - he seeks to leverage them to negotiate (which big pic prob won't work at least with Canada but maybe a bit with Mexico actually as both stand esp Mexico to really hurt more than US).

He has made exceptions for tariffs hitting semiconductors as well so he is def playing a game. This is a dumb ass game of course and really what he's doing in raising tariffs is to squeeze China. Let's face it, he has it in for China and his ego wants to beat them so everything he does is really targeted v China. All the other tariffs are noise - it's really the ones v. China that disrupt global econ when you look at numbers. There is no bigger player than China in terms of manufacturing globally - they have the market on supply chain except maybe for certain spaces in auto industry.

These tariffs leveraged globally to pin options for China and make them suffer because ultimately it's their exports to US that's the biggest pain for them. They don't really have an import prob but they def will have an export prob given that Trump is leveraging EU/SE Asia tariffs to limit Chinese options to have a place to export (those countries will serve themselves first before partnering with China).

Trump actually does have a strategy - it's not a good one and it's just unnecessary pain for every single person globally but I understand why he's doing this. It's totally ridiculous and really mad but that's really his goal - F up China. I'm not sure that he's gonna win because the Chinese are not idiots!!

Anonymous wrote:Drugs are exempt from tariffs and I doubt that will change.

Dumpster announced he is going to add tariffs to medications.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems like a massive positive outcome due to the tarriffs:

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/trump-tariffs-drugs-industry-warns-eu-100b-plus-pharma-exodus-us

Look, I am not T cheerleader, but having an absolutely vital industry to national security return to the US to the tune of $100B is a great outcome. This is one area where it was a massive mistake to lose our base in terms of manufacturing. If this outcome comes to fruition, I'd give T the win here, even if it cost some short term 401k dip. If the US has the best market for things like pharma, then make it a requirement to manufacture here if they want to sell here. Chinese do the same stuff but even worse, yet they're never called out on it.

Wake the f up. Europe and the US trade is worth over a trillion dollars. That is all going away. The Europeans have been actively recruiting scientists, chemists, etc from all the fired US federal employees and universities scientists, chemist, researchers, etc who have lost grants and federal research dollars. All the drug innovations in the US come from federal grants and research. That is now over. Add in Robert Kennedy and anti science stuff AND NOTHING IS COMING TO THE US.

The article is pure right wing nut job fantasy. No one is investing in manufacturing in the US. The regulatory environment and government interference is too great to invest anything. The Tariff change hourly, the graft and corruption is too expensive. Capital is fleeing the US. The scientific brain drain is huge.

This is the new world order.

I call BS. If this were true then we wouldn’t be paying the highest drug prices in the world. It costs pennies to manufacture drugs. The high cost is due to patents because it’s private companies making the innovations.

Every single drug approved by the FDA 2010-2016 had NIH-funded studies involved. Every one. The basic science behind the innovations happen at med schools and other R1 or R2 institutions that advance the science. Private companies build on established research, then spend years in clinical trials, which is time consuming and expensive.

Who says all that critical study funding is going away? There have been cuts, but many seem like wasteful spending with minimal utility for treatment of pressing diseases.

The word “seems” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

I was actually just listening to a podcast discussing how much scientific research looks silly and pointless in the early stages but ends up discovering something truly critical.

I guess your unnamed podcast is just as reliable as "seems"? There have been lots of accidental discoveries. That doesn't mean we need to waste money to achieve them.

It was an interview with Michael Lewis, prick.

You know what? I’m through being polite F*U*C*K you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems like a massive positive outcome due to the tarriffs:

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/trump-tariffs-drugs-industry-warns-eu-100b-plus-pharma-exodus-us

Look, I am not T cheerleader, but having an absolutely vital industry to national security return to the US to the tune of $100B is a great outcome. This is one area where it was a massive mistake to lose our base in terms of manufacturing. If this outcome comes to fruition, I'd give T the win here, even if it cost some short term 401k dip. If the US has the best market for things like pharma, then make it a requirement to manufacture here if they want to sell here. Chinese do the same stuff but even worse, yet they're never called out on it.

Wake the f up. Europe and the US trade is worth over a trillion dollars. That is all going away. The Europeans have been actively recruiting scientists, chemists, etc from all the fired US federal employees and universities scientists, chemist, researchers, etc who have lost grants and federal research dollars. All the drug innovations in the US come from federal grants and research. That is now over. Add in Robert Kennedy and anti science stuff AND NOTHING IS COMING TO THE US.

The article is pure right wing nut job fantasy. No one is investing in manufacturing in the US. The regulatory environment and government interference is too great to invest anything. The Tariff change hourly, the graft and corruption is too expensive. Capital is fleeing the US. The scientific brain drain is huge.

This is the new world order.

I call BS. If this were true then we wouldn’t be paying the highest drug prices in the world. It costs pennies to manufacture drugs. The high cost is due to patents because it’s private companies making the innovations.

Every single drug approved by the FDA 2010-2016 had NIH-funded studies involved. Every one. The basic science behind the innovations happen at med schools and other R1 or R2 institutions that advance the science. Private companies build on established research, then spend years in clinical trials, which is time consuming and expensive.

Who says all that critical study funding is going away? There have been cuts, but many seem like wasteful spending with minimal utility for treatment of pressing diseases.

The word “seems” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

I was actually just listening to a podcast discussing how much scientific research looks silly and pointless in the early stages but ends up discovering something truly critical.

I guess your unnamed podcast is just as reliable as "seems"? There have been lots of accidental discoveries. That doesn't mean we need to waste money to achieve them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems like a massive positive outcome due to the tarriffs:

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/trump-tariffs-drugs-industry-warns-eu-100b-plus-pharma-exodus-us

Look, I am not T cheerleader, but having an absolutely vital industry to national security return to the US to the tune of $100B is a great outcome. This is one area where it was a massive mistake to lose our base in terms of manufacturing. If this outcome comes to fruition, I'd give T the win here, even if it cost some short term 401k dip. If the US has the best market for things like pharma, then make it a requirement to manufacture here if they want to sell here. Chinese do the same stuff but even worse, yet they're never called out on it.

Wake the f up. Europe and the US trade is worth over a trillion dollars. That is all going away. The Europeans have been actively recruiting scientists, chemists, etc from all the fired US federal employees and universities scientists, chemist, researchers, etc who have lost grants and federal research dollars. All the drug innovations in the US come from federal grants and research. That is now over. Add in Robert Kennedy and anti science stuff AND NOTHING IS COMING TO THE US.

The article is pure right wing nut job fantasy. No one is investing in manufacturing in the US. The regulatory environment and government interference is too great to invest anything. The Tariff change hourly, the graft and corruption is too expensive. Capital is fleeing the US. The scientific brain drain is huge.

This is the new world order.

I call BS. If this were true then we wouldn’t be paying the highest drug prices in the world. It costs pennies to manufacture drugs. The high cost is due to patents because it’s private companies making the innovations.

Every single drug approved by the FDA 2010-2016 had NIH-funded studies involved. Every one. The basic science behind the innovations happen at med schools and other R1 or R2 institutions that advance the science. Private companies build on established research, then spend years in clinical trials, which is time consuming and expensive.

Who says all that critical study funding is going away? There have been cuts, but many seem like wasteful spending with minimal utility for treatment of pressing diseases.

The word “seems” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

I was actually just listening to a podcast discussing how much scientific research looks silly and pointless in the early stages but ends up discovering something truly critical.

Agree with you PP, but this is also performative. The administration is out to make it *seem* like all funding is at risk and that anyone can be persecuted. That’s enough for anyone with options. Why stick around until it’s too late?

Side note, Trump is right about Ireland making financial war on the world by being a tax haven that fraudulently "claims locality" of multinational corporate IP.
Look up the "double Dutch sandwich"


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I’m sure they will be moving to the country that is gutting medical R&D and all of its health related regulatory agencies. And also is run by an anti-science blowhard who may well turn on a dime and start attacking them and their businesses.

I predict that this industry will move to India.

Pharma is already big in India. Tariffs situation doesn't prefer India over Europe

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems like a massive positive outcome due to the tarriffs:

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/trump-tariffs-drugs-industry-warns-eu-100b-plus-pharma-exodus-us

Look, I am not T cheerleader, but having an absolutely vital industry to national security return to the US to the tune of $100B is a great outcome. This is one area where it was a massive mistake to lose our base in terms of manufacturing. If this outcome comes to fruition, I'd give T the win here, even if it cost some short term 401k dip. If the US has the best market for things like pharma, then make it a requirement to manufacture here if they want to sell here. Chinese do the same stuff but even worse, yet they're never called out on it.

Wake the f up. Europe and the US trade is worth over a trillion dollars. That is all going away. The Europeans have been actively recruiting scientists, chemists, etc from all the fired US federal employees and universities scientists, chemist, researchers, etc who have lost grants and federal research dollars. All the drug innovations in the US come from federal grants and research. That is now over. Add in Robert Kennedy and anti science stuff AND NOTHING IS COMING TO THE US.

The article is pure right wing nut job fantasy. No one is investing in manufacturing in the US. The regulatory environment and government interference is too great to invest anything. The Tariff change hourly, the graft and corruption is too expensive. Capital is fleeing the US. The scientific brain drain is huge.

This is the new world order.

I call BS. If this were true then we wouldn’t be paying the highest drug prices in the world. It costs pennies to manufacture drugs. The high cost is due to patents because it’s private companies making the innovations.

You are ignoring the difference between basic research and engineering development/marketing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems like a massive positive outcome due to the tarriffs:

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/trump-tariffs-drugs-industry-warns-eu-100b-plus-pharma-exodus-us

Look, I am not T cheerleader, but having an absolutely vital industry to national security return to the US to the tune of $100B is a great outcome. This is one area where it was a massive mistake to lose our base in terms of manufacturing. If this outcome comes to fruition, I'd give T the win here, even if it cost some short term 401k dip. If the US has the best market for things like pharma, then make it a requirement to manufacture here if they want to sell here. Chinese do the same stuff but even worse, yet they're never called out on it.

Wake the f up. Europe and the US trade is worth over a trillion dollars. That is all going away. The Europeans have been actively recruiting scientists, chemists, etc from all the fired US federal employees and universities scientists, chemist, researchers, etc who have lost grants and federal research dollars. All the drug innovations in the US come from federal grants and research. That is now over. Add in Robert Kennedy and anti science stuff AND NOTHING IS COMING TO THE US.

The article is pure right wing nut job fantasy. No one is investing in manufacturing in the US. The regulatory environment and government interference is too great to invest anything. The Tariff change hourly, the graft and corruption is too expensive. Capital is fleeing the US. The scientific brain drain is huge.

This is the new world order.

I call BS. If this were true then we wouldn’t be paying the highest drug prices in the world. It costs pennies to manufacture drugs. The high cost is due to patents because it’s private companies making the innovations.

Every single drug approved by the FDA 2010-2016 had NIH-funded studies involved. Every one. The basic science behind the innovations happen at med schools and other R1 or R2 institutions that advance the science. Private companies build on established research, then spend years in clinical trials, which is time consuming and expensive.

Who says all that critical study funding is going away? There have been cuts, but many seem like wasteful spending with minimal utility for treatment of pressing diseases.

The word “seems” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

I was actually just listening to a podcast discussing how much scientific research looks silly and pointless in the early stages but ends up discovering something truly critical.

OP, why would any sane person make an investment in the US right now? There is a mad dictator in charge with no respect for the rule of law, does not respect international trade (which US any manufacturing will still rely on because all manufacturing has a supply chain) and who doesn't believe in science.

Anonymous wrote:Yes I’m sure they will be moving to the country that is gutting medical R&D and all of its health related regulatory agencies. And also is run by an anti-science blowhard who may well turn on a dime and start attacking them and their businesses.

I predict that this industry will move to India.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would tariffs cause a change in research?

It's manufacturing of drugs that will flee to the US.

Manufacturing of drugs is a low value-add. The real money that benefits a local economy with a multipler effect is the massive R&D spending by well educated people with PhDs and the capital gains pouring in to the IP owners/ shareholders. Manufacturing little pills based on R&D from Switzerland is not a gang busters business.

Really?

Until there's a global pandemic that shuts down supply chains and the US has severe shortages of critical meds. Or China shuts off all supplies of critical APIs during conflict with the US that makes America fall to its knees because there are no more antibiotics etc. that make it impossible to do any surgery.

You have no idea what you're talking about. There is massive national security risk relying on extended supply chains from China to India to Europe to produce critical meds.

Oh come on, we just went through this and we came out on top. Bonus the COVID boomer kill was good for the US economy. So sorry the world isn't as simple as you would like, but this is America, our super power is exploitation, we can't do that restricted to our own borders.

That's why the dollar is in freefall now. The US is done.

Agree, going to be one big trailer park, but simple supply chain.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would tariffs cause a change in research?

It's manufacturing of drugs that will flee to the US.

Manufacturing of drugs is a low value-add. The real money that benefits a local economy with a multipler effect is the massive R&D spending by well educated people with PhDs and the capital gains pouring in to the IP owners/ shareholders. Manufacturing little pills based on R&D from Switzerland is not a gang busters business.

Really?

Until there's a global pandemic that shuts down supply chains and the US has severe shortages of critical meds. Or China shuts off all supplies of critical APIs during conflict with the US that makes America fall to its knees because there are no more antibiotics etc. that make it impossible to do any surgery.

You have no idea what you're talking about. There is massive national security risk relying on extended supply chains from China to India to Europe to produce critical meds.

Oh come on, we just went through this and we came out on top. Bonus the COVID boomer kill was good for the US economy. So sorry the world isn't as simple as you would like, but this is America, our super power is exploitation, we can't do that restricted to our own borders.

That's why the dollar is in freefall now. The US is done.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would tariffs cause a change in research?

It's manufacturing of drugs that will flee to the US.

Manufacturing of drugs is a low value-add. The real money that benefits a local economy with a multipler effect is the massive R&D spending by well educated people with PhDs and the capital gains pouring in to the IP owners/ shareholders. Manufacturing little pills based on R&D from Switzerland is not a gang busters business.

Really?

Until there's a global pandemic that shuts down supply chains and the US has severe shortages of critical meds. Or China shuts off all supplies of critical APIs during conflict with the US that makes America fall to its knees because there are no more antibiotics etc. that make it impossible to do any surgery.

You have no idea what you're talking about. There is massive national security risk relying on extended supply chains from China to India to Europe to produce critical meds.

Oh come on, we just went through this and we came out on top. Bonus the COVID boomer kill was good for the US economy. So sorry the world isn't as simple as you would like, but this is America, our super power is exploitation, we can't do that restricted to our own borders.