Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend’s family are Mennonite dog breeders. They have one female they breed at a time but she has a litter basically every year. The dogs do always seem well cared for, clean, live in their house with them, etc. But I don’t know how good it is to be bred that often. Or maybe that isn’t often for a purebred breeder?

Walk talking to a breeder recently and he said they only breed each mom 3x. They are AKC registered I couldn’t bare to ask what happens when they can’t be bread anymore.

FWIW my grandma was a registered breeder and she only bred her female dog one or two times each, she just had 5 or 10 year gaps between litters. The moms were just family pets. But she was a hobby breeder and she always lost money on it.

This is the thing — if the animals are properly cared for, you don’t make money. Legit breeders are in it to advance the breed. That’s why there are virtually no legit doodle breeders. There is no breed standard to conform to and there is a huge market; a recipe for abuse/neglect.

Op above. I posted above but to add again, my dh looked for more local breeders and they are charging 5 times the price. Crazy. It’s so hard to find a good breeder

Ethical breeders and puppy mills sell products that look very similar, but are not the same quality. You can get a burger at a fast food restaurant or a fine steakhouse, but the organic grass fed Kobe beef is going to cost more than the 80/20 ground beef with fillers, even if they’re both burgers. Which is your priority, the affordable burger or the highest quality burger?

Not sure this is a great analogy but I have to assume someone charging 3 to 5k for a dog is doing it to make some money, no? You indicated above (I think, someone did) that it should be solely a ‘labor of love’, no?

Our breeder wasn't nearly that, I forget but it was under $1500 and it included meeting us half way. They can be the same quality and its sometimes pure luck.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend’s family are Mennonite dog breeders. They have one female they breed at a time but she has a litter basically every year. The dogs do always seem well cared for, clean, live in their house with them, etc. But I don’t know how good it is to be bred that often. Or maybe that isn’t often for a purebred breeder?

Walk talking to a breeder recently and he said they only breed each mom 3x. They are AKC registered I couldn’t bare to ask what happens when they can’t be bread anymore.

FWIW my grandma was a registered breeder and she only bred her female dog one or two times each, she just had 5 or 10 year gaps between litters. The moms were just family pets. But she was a hobby breeder and she always lost money on it.

This is the thing — if the animals are properly cared for, you don’t make money. Legit breeders are in it to advance the breed. That’s why there are virtually no legit doodle breeders. There is no breed standard to conform to and there is a huge market; a recipe for abuse/neglect.

There are but its more a hobby/part-time than full-time income. If there is a litter of 6-8, they are getting 10-20K and they just have a few vet visits in less dog needs a c-section or complications. A litter of 2, no.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend’s family are Mennonite dog breeders. They have one female they breed at a time but she has a litter basically every year. The dogs do always seem well cared for, clean, live in their house with them, etc. But I don’t know how good it is to be bred that often. Or maybe that isn’t often for a purebred breeder?

Walk talking to a breeder recently and he said they only breed each mom 3x. They are AKC registered I couldn’t bare to ask what happens when they can’t be bread anymore.

FWIW my grandma was a registered breeder and she only bred her female dog one or two times each, she just had 5 or 10 year gaps between litters. The moms were just family pets. But she was a hobby breeder and she always lost money on it.

This is the thing — if the animals are properly cared for, you don’t make money. Legit breeders are in it to advance the breed. That’s why there are virtually no legit doodle breeders. There is no breed standard to conform to and there is a huge market; a recipe for abuse/neglect.

Op above. I posted above but to add again, my dh looked for more local breeders and they are charging 5 times the price. Crazy. It’s so hard to find a good breeder

Ethical breeders and puppy mills sell products that look very similar, but are not the same quality. You can get a burger at a fast food restaurant or a fine steakhouse, but the organic grass fed Kobe beef is going to cost more than the 80/20 ground beef with fillers, even if they’re both burgers. Which is your priority, the affordable burger or the highest quality burger?

Not sure this is a great analogy but I have to assume someone charging 3 to 5k for a dog is doing it to make some money, no? You indicated above (I think, someone did) that it should be solely a ‘labor of love’, no?

Listen, the dog industry has done this to themselves. The rescue and “rescue” people have spent huge amounts of time and money telling people they’re bad for even considering a breeder, and the actual breeders have done everything they can to make it all opaque and difficult to navigate.

Nobody is helping average people find healthy, suitably puppies and the ethics and incentives and policy are all FUBAR.

Just do reasonable leg work, get a dog from somewhere and take care of it.

It just makes no sense that buying from a Mennonite breeder after trying to do some due diligence, with no help from dog advocacy groups, is unethical but paying Lucky Dog to ship up a puppy someone bred in their SC backyard is virtuous.

Anonymous wrote:Nope. That community is not known for medically-sound or sensitive breeding practices.

You want to find a breeder that you can visit, OP. Breeders who care for their animals will NEVER ship them out. Those who care also don't want to sell them to just anyone, and will require an in-person visit to check you out. This is what our breeder did. We drove to Pennsylvania and met with her and the litter when the puppies were 5 weeks old. She approved of us, we approved of her and the puppies, and we selected one. Then we went to her home to pick him up at 11 weeks, and visited her home, where she lived with her dam, a couple of other dogs of the same breed, and her dam's litter. No kennels, no volume, in-house training by her, genetic screens, the works! It should be a labor of love, not a cash cow.

These are good things to look for. In addition, legitimate breeders may require that they match you with a dog as opposed to you picking. They know the dog's temperament and personality and are better able to determine, based on your personality/temperament preferences, which puppy would be a good fit for you. They may also require, per the contract, that if for some reason you cannot keep the dog, you have to return it to them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend’s family are Mennonite dog breeders. They have one female they breed at a time but she has a litter basically every year. The dogs do always seem well cared for, clean, live in their house with them, etc. But I don’t know how good it is to be bred that often. Or maybe that isn’t often for a purebred breeder?

Walk talking to a breeder recently and he said they only breed each mom 3x. They are AKC registered I couldn’t bare to ask what happens when they can’t be bread anymore.

FWIW my grandma was a registered breeder and she only bred her female dog one or two times each, she just had 5 or 10 year gaps between litters. The moms were just family pets. But she was a hobby breeder and she always lost money on it.

This is the thing — if the animals are properly cared for, you don’t make money. Legit breeders are in it to advance the breed. That’s why there are virtually no legit doodle breeders. There is no breed standard to conform to and there is a huge market; a recipe for abuse/neglect.

+1 this is worth repeating.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend’s family are Mennonite dog breeders. They have one female they breed at a time but she has a litter basically every year. The dogs do always seem well cared for, clean, live in their house with them, etc. But I don’t know how good it is to be bred that often. Or maybe that isn’t often for a purebred breeder?

Walk talking to a breeder recently and he said they only breed each mom 3x. They are AKC registered I couldn’t bare to ask what happens when they can’t be bread anymore.

FWIW my grandma was a registered breeder and she only bred her female dog one or two times each, she just had 5 or 10 year gaps between litters. The moms were just family pets. But she was a hobby breeder and she always lost money on it.

This is the thing — if the animals are properly cared for, you don’t make money. Legit breeders are in it to advance the breed. That’s why there are virtually no legit doodle breeders. There is no breed standard to conform to and there is a huge market; a recipe for abuse/neglect.

Not sure this makes sense to me. Why would anyone breed dogs then? Or very few would, right? It’s a lot of work and if they’re losing money…

Well … when they give them no medical care and barely feed them and focus on highly marketable breeds … they do come out ahead $ wise. My toy poodle is a mill rescue and she came to us heartbreakingly skinny and full of worms. Before she came to me she was also anemic from fleas. If you don’t care about horrible suffering? You can make money.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend’s family are Mennonite dog breeders. They have one female they breed at a time but she has a litter basically every year. The dogs do always seem well cared for, clean, live in their house with them, etc. But I don’t know how good it is to be bred that often. Or maybe that isn’t often for a purebred breeder?

Walk talking to a breeder recently and he said they only breed each mom 3x. They are AKC registered I couldn’t bare to ask what happens when they can’t be bread anymore.

FWIW my grandma was a registered breeder and she only bred her female dog one or two times each, she just had 5 or 10 year gaps between litters. The moms were just family pets. But she was a hobby breeder and she always lost money on it.

This is the thing — if the animals are properly cared for, you don’t make money. Legit breeders are in it to advance the breed. That’s why there are virtually no legit doodle breeders. There is no breed standard to conform to and there is a huge market; a recipe for abuse/neglect.

Op above. I posted above but to add again, my dh looked for more local breeders and they are charging 5 times the price. Crazy. It’s so hard to find a good breeder

So what this is a $500 puppy and local breeders are charging $2,500?

I mean look, you don't want a discount puppy. Let's set aside the ethical issues for a second (though we really shouldn't) and be extremely clinical about math. A bad genetic issue, an illness from improper care or bad conditions when they're a puppy will cost you more than the 2-3k you might save on a cheaper puppy. For some context my free shelter cat had a genetic condition that attacked his teeth, overall a minor issue, and while he was healthy and had a long full life otherwise, I probably spent about 5k just on his teeth during the course of his life.

A sick puppy could easily cost 3-4x that over the course of their life.

Now there are no guarantees, you might luck out with a sketchy bred dog and a properly bred dog might also get sick or injured. But from a purely financial perspective, it's not actually a smart cost saving.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend’s family are Mennonite dog breeders. They have one female they breed at a time but she has a litter basically every year. The dogs do always seem well cared for, clean, live in their house with them, etc. But I don’t know how good it is to be bred that often. Or maybe that isn’t often for a purebred breeder?

Walk talking to a breeder recently and he said they only breed each mom 3x. They are AKC registered I couldn’t bare to ask what happens when they can’t be bread anymore.

FWIW my grandma was a registered breeder and she only bred her female dog one or two times each, she just had 5 or 10 year gaps between litters. The moms were just family pets. But she was a hobby breeder and she always lost money on it.

This is the thing — if the animals are properly cared for, you don’t make money. Legit breeders are in it to advance the breed. That’s why there are virtually no legit doodle breeders. There is no breed standard to conform to and there is a huge market; a recipe for abuse/neglect.

Op above. I posted above but to add again, my dh looked for more local breeders and they are charging 5 times the price. Crazy. It’s so hard to find a good breeder

If you are balking at price, you might rethink getting a dog. Even with a very expensive purebred the purchase price is barely a drop in the bucket of what you end up spending.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend’s family are Mennonite dog breeders. They have one female they breed at a time but she has a litter basically every year. The dogs do always seem well cared for, clean, live in their house with them, etc. But I don’t know how good it is to be bred that often. Or maybe that isn’t often for a purebred breeder?

Walk talking to a breeder recently and he said they only breed each mom 3x. They are AKC registered I couldn’t bare to ask what happens when they can’t be bread anymore.

FWIW my grandma was a registered breeder and she only bred her female dog one or two times each, she just had 5 or 10 year gaps between litters. The moms were just family pets. But she was a hobby breeder and she always lost money on it.

This is the thing — if the animals are properly cared for, you don’t make money. Legit breeders are in it to advance the breed. That’s why there are virtually no legit doodle breeders. There is no breed standard to conform to and there is a huge market; a recipe for abuse/neglect.

Op above. I posted above but to add again, my dh looked for more local breeders and they are charging 5 times the price. Crazy. It’s so hard to find a good breeder

Ethical breeders and puppy mills sell products that look very similar, but are not the same quality. You can get a burger at a fast food restaurant or a fine steakhouse, but the organic grass fed Kobe beef is going to cost more than the 80/20 ground beef with fillers, even if they’re both burgers. Which is your priority, the affordable burger or the highest quality burger?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend’s family are Mennonite dog breeders. They have one female they breed at a time but she has a litter basically every year. The dogs do always seem well cared for, clean, live in their house with them, etc. But I don’t know how good it is to be bred that often. Or maybe that isn’t often for a purebred breeder?

Walk talking to a breeder recently and he said they only breed each mom 3x. They are AKC registered I couldn’t bare to ask what happens when they can’t be bread anymore.

FWIW my grandma was a registered breeder and she only bred her female dog one or two times each, she just had 5 or 10 year gaps between litters. The moms were just family pets. But she was a hobby breeder and she always lost money on it.

This is the thing — if the animals are properly cared for, you don’t make money. Legit breeders are in it to advance the breed. That’s why there are virtually no legit doodle breeders. There is no breed standard to conform to and there is a huge market; a recipe for abuse/neglect.

Not sure this makes sense to me. Why would anyone breed dogs then? Or very few would, right? It’s a lot of work and if they’re losing money…

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend’s family are Mennonite dog breeders. They have one female they breed at a time but she has a litter basically every year. The dogs do always seem well cared for, clean, live in their house with them, etc. But I don’t know how good it is to be bred that often. Or maybe that isn’t often for a purebred breeder?

Walk talking to a breeder recently and he said they only breed each mom 3x. They are AKC registered I couldn’t bare to ask what happens when they can’t be bread anymore.

FWIW my grandma was a registered breeder and she only bred her female dog one or two times each, she just had 5 or 10 year gaps between litters. The moms were just family pets. But she was a hobby breeder and she always lost money on it.

This is the thing — if the animals are properly cared for, you don’t make money. Legit breeders are in it to advance the breed. That’s why there are virtually no legit doodle breeders. There is no breed standard to conform to and there is a huge market; a recipe for abuse/neglect.

Op above. I posted above but to add again, my dh looked for more local breeders and they are charging 5 times the price. Crazy. It’s so hard to find a good breeder

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many different puppies do they have available? Are those puppies the same breed or multiple different breeds? Do they have health screenings for the parents?

Generally speaking, Amish or Mennonite breeders think of the dogs the same way they would think about any other kind of farm animal. They aren't going to mistreat them on purpose, but they aren't going to baby it any more than they would a calf. They probably are not that worried about breed standards or genetic issues. They are selling cute puppies for money.

That's a vast, vast understatement about the brutality of these places.

NP. Do you think all Amish and mennonites run the same operations? Or is that making a sweeping generalization?

It is a business they are in. Dog breeding does not make money when the dogs get the proper care and dams are not overbred. Breeding operations that are set up as businesses are de facto mills.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend’s family are Mennonite dog breeders. They have one female they breed at a time but she has a litter basically every year. The dogs do always seem well cared for, clean, live in their house with them, etc. But I don’t know how good it is to be bred that often. Or maybe that isn’t often for a purebred breeder?

Walk talking to a breeder recently and he said they only breed each mom 3x. They are AKC registered I couldn’t bare to ask what happens when they can’t be bread anymore.

FWIW my grandma was a registered breeder and she only bred her female dog one or two times each, she just had 5 or 10 year gaps between litters. The moms were just family pets. But she was a hobby breeder and she always lost money on it.

This is the thing — if the animals are properly cared for, you don’t make money. Legit breeders are in it to advance the breed. That’s why there are virtually no legit doodle breeders. There is no breed standard to conform to and there is a huge market; a recipe for abuse/neglect.

Do you seriously think that a group of people who come from a very limited gene pool are concerning themselves with genetic diversity when breeding animals? They’re not showing these dogs and striving for perfect breed confirmation. This is a money making operation that requires little overhead or effort or education or expertise. A couple years ago, I chatted with an Amish woman about her cute chihuahua. She told me the dog just keeps getting pregnant, like she had no agency in letting her unspayed dog wander around off leash. She didn’t have dozens of dogs on her property. Where do you think all those puppies went?