Make careful choices because no severance is available to you if you meet MRA and years of service.

Anonymous wrote:I posted this in the If you are RIF - do they just let you take VERA thread.

In RIF, if you qualify for an immediate annuity - same criteria as VERA - you receive a Discontinues Service Retirement (DSR). But there are differences b/w VERA and DSR.

Differences based on age and years of service are described on pg 4 in OPM Chapter 51. Retiree Annuity Supplement. https://www.opm.gov/retir...k/c051.pdf

Another important bit of info…for double Fed families, you don’t have to be the one paying for FEHB to keep it after VERA or DSR. You are both are considered enrolled - so which ever person retiring could take over insurance deductions to guarantee FEHB for family.

OPM describes RIF in chapter 44. https://www.opm.gov/retir...k/c044.pdf

Currently HR folks are just describing VERA rules. And one HR person told me that VERA and DSR were the same. I didn’t believe them and read both chapter 44 and chapter 55. And FERS supplement is not available for those at MRA + 10 yrs.

Risk of waiting for RIF and thinking VERA and DSR are same are large. Because if you are offered a reassignment under RIF and decline - then it’s not DSR, it’s a resignation.

Read both chapter 44 and 51 to understand your own specific risks under RIF.

This is true, but for most feds (I think there are a few jobs that have relocation requirements in their contract) the reassignment must be in the same commuting region. So it could add to your commute (you might be relocated to an office within your same agency from Frederick to Woodbridge) but you wouldn't be out of a job in this scenario (and most agencies don't have offices spread all over the DMV so that scenario is also not very likely). Also, they could move you to a lower job, but you'd retain your same pay for a couple of years.

In any case, I've not seen a case where they are doing this bump/retreat kind of thing that would put you into another job. Based on some posts on this board about IRS asking for resumes they may become the exception. If there's no bump and retreat, I don't think you need to worry about the reassigned job scenario.

If the OP is not 60 or doesn’t not have 30yrs, there is a difference between VERA and DSR. Read OPM RIF Chapters 44 and 51.

https://www.opm.gov/retirement-center/publications-forms/csrsfers-handbook/c044.pdf

https://www.opm.gov/retirement-center/publications-forms/csrsfers-handbook/c044.pdf#page7

Also, in RIF if you are offered a “reasonable reassignment” and decline, that’s a resignation and there is no VERA or DSR.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eligibility for Vera is the same as discontinued service retirement. Are you eligible for a Vera? You need 20 years if you’re over 50.

What a jerk. OP literally said they are eligible for VERA and here you are mansplaining like a b__ch.

Cool it. PP was trying to help, and there are others on the thread who've mentioned other ages/times in service. Just chill and do your best to be helpful.

But OP is also trying to decide whether to take VERA, which doesn't make sense. OP should just wait to be RIFed. If he/she is, he/she will get the benefits of VERA. There's no decision to make here.

I agree. It was the tone of the 'what a jerk' message I was reacting to.

First, I am so sorry for your situation. Second, why count yourselves out on getting some sort of job? I completely understand the age aspect (and ageism is of course an issue) but is there something you could do to bridge the gap, even if it was less income? Not sure what either of you do…if you shared, maybe folks could provide some suggestions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eligibility for Vera is the same as discontinued service retirement. Are you eligible for a Vera? You need 20 years if you’re over 50.

What a jerk. OP literally said they are eligible for VERA and here you are mansplaining like a b__ch.

Cool it. PP was trying to help, and there are others on the thread who've mentioned other ages/times in service. Just chill and do your best to be helpful.

But OP is also trying to decide whether to take VERA, which doesn't make sense. OP should just wait to be RIFed. If he/she is, he/she will get the benefits of VERA. There's no decision to make here.

OP here, yes thank you for clarifying it is much appreciated. We will hang tight since it doesn’t seem like passing on VERA is closing any doors. Schedule F remains a possible bogeyman, but just a risk we take

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If positions end up being Schedule F, then no severance.

Can you get DSR?

Not true

Anonymous wrote:OP I am thinking/worrying like you. As it stands now, VERA and DSR (discontinued service retirement - what happens if you get riffed) are the same. (You keep FEHB; no reduction to pension even if not 62; keep social security supplement for gap years between MRA and age 62). The extra worry I had was what happens once they schedule F everyone. If they fire you when you are schedule F (since you are at will so can be any reason other than illegal reason like age/race etc) - do schedule F folks still get DSR? As far as I can tell the answer is nobody knows - those regs haven’t been written yet. Probably current employees get geandfathered in??? But not cause they want to be nice, they just figure they would lose any related lawsuit down the road ….

That’s the problem, they aren’t playing by usual rules so it’s all up in the air. Typically, if eligible for a Vera you’d get a DSR if riffed which would be the same. But, I just took the Vera at my agency and HR couldn’t give a clear answer as to whether DSR would be automatic in the event of a rif. This has been discussed a lot on Reddit and I haven’t seen a clear answer - probably because the RIFs are just happening - as to whether they are providing DSRs.

I don’t know what you do of course but I wouldn’t be so quick to assume you are totally unemployable. With your annuity even a reduced salary job could bring you to or close to your current salary.

I posted this in the If you are RIF - do they just let you take VERA thread.

In RIF, if you qualify for an immediate annuity - same criteria as VERA - you receive a Discontinues Service Retirement (DSR). But there are differences b/w VERA and DSR.

Differences based on age and years of service are described on pg 4 in OPM Chapter 51. Retiree Annuity Supplement. https://www.opm.gov/retir...k/c051.pdf

Another important bit of info…for double Fed families, you don’t have to be the one paying for FEHB to keep it after VERA or DSR. You are both are considered enrolled - so which ever person retiring could take over insurance deductions to guarantee FEHB for family.

OPM describes RIF in chapter 44. https://www.opm.gov/retir...k/c044.pdf

Currently HR folks are just describing VERA rules. And one HR person told me that VERA and DSR were the same. I didn’t believe them and read both chapter 44 and chapter 55. And FERS supplement is not available for those at MRA + 10 yrs.

Risk of waiting for RIF and thinking VERA and DSR are same are large. Because if you are offered a reassignment under RIF and decline - then it’s not DSR, it’s a resignation.

Read both chapter 44 and 51 to understand your own specific risks under RIF.

If you have 50 and 20 and are RIFd, you get DSR so you will retain health benefits.

BUT, there is a slight risk. You don’t get DSR if you turn down a “reasonable job offer.”

Look into this at your agency.

I don't think being the higher earning spouse (when your spouse also makes a significant income) make you the "breadwinner." I have a friend who keeps saying this about her own family. She makes substantially more than her husband, but his income is still a significant portion of their family income. Neither of you is the breadwinner. You have a two income family, and one of you has a higher income. It's a real slap in the face to the lower income partner to say the higher income one is the breadwinner, as though their income is nothing. And also, it's shitty to all the single parents and sole earners among us who actually are the breadwinners for our families. If you lose your job, OP, and your partner keeps theirs, you'd have to reduce your family spending by more than half. That would be a crisis. But your family would still have income. If the true breadwinner in a family loses their income and cannot find a new job, that family becomes homeless.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eligibility for Vera is the same as discontinued service retirement. Are you eligible for a Vera? You need 20 years if you’re over 50.

What a jerk. OP literally said they are eligible for VERA and here you are mansplaining like a b__ch.

Cool it. PP was trying to help, and there are others on the thread who've mentioned other ages/times in service. Just chill and do your best to be helpful.

But OP is also trying to decide whether to take VERA, which doesn't make sense. OP should just wait to be RIFed. If he/she is, he/she will get the benefits of VERA. There's no decision to make here.

Anonymous wrote:If you are RIF’d, do you not get the option of the lifetime health insurance? Does that only kick in if you officially retire?

At our agency if you are selected for a rif but you are eligible for VERA, they let you retire

OP I am thinking/worrying like you. As it stands now, VERA and DSR (discontinued service retirement - what happens if you get riffed) are the same. (You keep FEHB; no reduction to pension even if not 62; keep social security supplement for gap years between MRA and age 62). The extra worry I had was what happens once they schedule F everyone. If they fire you when you are schedule F (since you are at will so can be any reason other than illegal reason like age/race etc) - do schedule F folks still get DSR? As far as I can tell the answer is nobody knows - those regs haven’t been written yet. Probably current employees get geandfathered in??? But not cause they want to be nice, they just figure they would lose any related lawsuit down the road ….

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eligibility for Vera is the same as discontinued service retirement. Are you eligible for a Vera? You need 20 years if you’re over 50.

What a jerk. OP literally said they are eligible for VERA and here you are mansplaining like a b__ch.

Cool it. PP was trying to help, and there are others on the thread who've mentioned other ages/times in service. Just chill and do your best to be helpful.