Anonymous wrote:Do you find it puzzling?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of our concepts of freedom that came out of the Enlightenment have Christian underpinnings. People - including many modern Christians - just don't want to remember that.

"Christian underpinnings..." nice equivocation so you don't get skewered again for saying they are christian inventions. Christianity is a critical part of european history and everything which comes from european history has "Christian underpinnings..." including salt cod and the road system. Doesn't mean those freedom values are inherent in the religion, because they are not.

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

Try again

Slavery had been practiced and considered as the default norm by almost all major civilizations until Christianity came along. It was only abolished on a large scale when the white Christian men who held power abolished it.

If you actually believe this statement makes any significant or compelling point you are an idiot.

White Christian men did abolish slavery.

White Christian men also fought for slavery. Fortunately those white Christian men lost.

They also did all the farming, the banking, the card-playing, the eating of steaks. They caught all the fish. They made all the pants. They did everything. They took all the dumps. They painted all the barns. They acted in all the plays. Some were unionists, some were secessionists. Some were even left-handed!

Saying "white Christian men" did any one thing any trying to attribute universal significance or values to that is just stupid.

Want to be less stupid? Then read this article: How Christian Slaveholders Used the Bible to Justify Slavery. https://time.com/5171819/christianity-slavery-book-excerpt/

But I bet you don't want to be less stupid.

NP. Your response to the pp is shallow and facile on the face of it. Yes, Christians held slaves and justified it with bible passages--in the past. Then other Christians came along and abolished slavery--just like pp said--and today no Christians support slavery. What about that is hard to understand?

Believe me, there is NOTHING hard to understand about this point.

You didn't read the article linked, did you?

• 1 Timothy 6:1-2 - "Those who are under the yoke of slavery should regard their masters as deserving of all honor."

• Colossians 3:22 - "Slaves, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters."

• Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT "However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.

• Exodus 21:20-21 NAB When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.

• Ephesians 6:5 NLT "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. "

• Leviticus 25:44-46 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Several churches advocate for religious minorities, including the Baptist Joint Committee (BJC), and the National Council of Churches (NCC), among others.

Baptist Joint Committee (BJC):
This national faith-based group focuses on protecting religious freedom for all, working to build unity among diverse groups, both religious and secular, and advocating for religious freedom through legal action, lobbying, and education.

21Wilberforce:
This organization is a Christian human rights advocacy group that believes in the inherent dignity and equal rights of all people, including freedom of religion.

National Council of Churches (NCC):
The NCC calls upon all Christians in the U.S. to seek understanding of issues related to religious freedom and to promote strategies in their own churches and communities that better represent the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Baptist World Alliance (BWA):
The BWA has programs and initiatives related to human rights, including religious freedom monitoring and advocacy, and has relevant commissions, such as the Commission on Religious Freedom.

United Methodist Church:
The United Methodist Church acknowledges its historical failings in upholding religious freedom and states its commitment to religious freedom for all, opposing any claims to impose one set of religious beliefs onto others.

And no support for another minority religion, Satanism.

Anonymous wrote:Tolerating other religious beliefs is a fairly odd belief over human history OP.

Do the imams of Iran tolerate apostates? No it is punishable by death.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of our concepts of freedom that came out of the Enlightenment have Christian underpinnings. People - including many modern Christians - just don't want to remember that.

"Christian underpinnings..." nice equivocation so you don't get skewered again for saying they are christian inventions. Christianity is a critical part of european history and everything which comes from european history has "Christian underpinnings..." including salt cod and the road system. Doesn't mean those freedom values are inherent in the religion, because they are not.

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

Try again

Slavery had been practiced and considered as the default norm by almost all major civilizations until Christianity came along. It was only abolished on a large scale when the white Christian men who held power abolished it.

If you actually believe this statement makes any significant or compelling point you are an idiot.

White Christian men did abolish slavery.

White Christian men also fought for slavery. Fortunately those white Christian men lost.

They also did all the farming, the banking, the card-playing, the eating of steaks. They caught all the fish. They made all the pants. They did everything. They took all the dumps. They painted all the barns. They acted in all the plays. Some were unionists, some were secessionists. Some were even left-handed!

Saying "white Christian men" did any one thing any trying to attribute universal significance or values to that is just stupid.

Want to be less stupid? Then read this article: How Christian Slaveholders Used the Bible to Justify Slavery. https://time.com/5171819/christianity-slavery-book-excerpt/

But I bet you don't want to be less stupid.

+1. The fact that humans owned slaves (or some currently still do) is not the point. The point is that this god that is being worshipped actually ADVOCATED for slavery. If he was all loving, shouldn't at least HE know that it was immoral to own another human being? shouldn't he have added it to his list of commandments, maybe taking the place of one of the commandments to worship him, the one committing the immoral acts?

What if it's humans who are interpreting this wrong? God clearly thinks he owns people and commands that we worship only him. What if owning another person is not immoral from his perspective?

What a god to believe in!

Owning a person was not immoral during the ancient times times when the Bible was written - by men, of course

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of our concepts of freedom that came out of the Enlightenment have Christian underpinnings. People - including many modern Christians - just don't want to remember that.

"Christian underpinnings..." nice equivocation so you don't get skewered again for saying they are christian inventions. Christianity is a critical part of european history and everything which comes from european history has "Christian underpinnings..." including salt cod and the road system. Doesn't mean those freedom values are inherent in the religion, because they are not.

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

Try again

Slavery had been practiced and considered as the default norm by almost all major civilizations until Christianity came along. It was only abolished on a large scale when the white Christian men who held power abolished it.

If you actually believe this statement makes any significant or compelling point you are an idiot.

White Christian men did abolish slavery.

White Christian men also fought for slavery. Fortunately those white Christian men lost.

They also did all the farming, the banking, the card-playing, the eating of steaks. They caught all the fish. They made all the pants. They did everything. They took all the dumps. They painted all the barns. They acted in all the plays. Some were unionists, some were secessionists. Some were even left-handed!

Saying "white Christian men" did any one thing any trying to attribute universal significance or values to that is just stupid.

Want to be less stupid? Then read this article: How Christian Slaveholders Used the Bible to Justify Slavery. https://time.com/5171819/christianity-slavery-book-excerpt/

But I bet you don't want to be less stupid.

+1. The fact that humans owned slaves (or some currently still do) is not the point. The point is that this god that is being worshipped actually ADVOCATED for slavery. If he was all loving, shouldn't at least HE know that it was immoral to own another human being? shouldn't he have added it to his list of commandments, maybe taking the place of one of the commandments to worship him, the one committing the immoral acts?

What if it's humans who are interpreting this wrong? God clearly thinks he owns people and commands that we worship only him. What if owning another person is not immoral from his perspective?

What a god to believe in!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of our concepts of freedom that came out of the Enlightenment have Christian underpinnings. People - including many modern Christians - just don't want to remember that.

"Christian underpinnings..." nice equivocation so you don't get skewered again for saying they are christian inventions. Christianity is a critical part of european history and everything which comes from european history has "Christian underpinnings..." including salt cod and the road system. Doesn't mean those freedom values are inherent in the religion, because they are not.

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

Try again

Slavery had been practiced and considered as the default norm by almost all major civilizations until Christianity came along. It was only abolished on a large scale when the white Christian men who held power abolished it.

If you actually believe this statement makes any significant or compelling point you are an idiot.

White Christian men did abolish slavery.

White Christian men also fought for slavery. Fortunately those white Christian men lost.

They also did all the farming, the banking, the card-playing, the eating of steaks. They caught all the fish. They made all the pants. They did everything. They took all the dumps. They painted all the barns. They acted in all the plays. Some were unionists, some were secessionists. Some were even left-handed!

Saying "white Christian men" did any one thing any trying to attribute universal significance or values to that is just stupid.

Want to be less stupid? Then read this article: How Christian Slaveholders Used the Bible to Justify Slavery. https://time.com/5171819/christianity-slavery-book-excerpt/

But I bet you don't want to be less stupid.

+1. The fact that humans owned slaves (or some currently still do) is not the point. The point is that this god that is being worshipped actually ADVOCATED for slavery. If he was all loving, shouldn't at least HE know that it was immoral to own another human being? shouldn't he have added it to his list of commandments, maybe taking the place of one of the commandments to worship him, the one committing the immoral acts?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of our concepts of freedom that came out of the Enlightenment have Christian underpinnings. People - including many modern Christians - just don't want to remember that.

"Christian underpinnings..." nice equivocation so you don't get skewered again for saying they are christian inventions. Christianity is a critical part of european history and everything which comes from european history has "Christian underpinnings..." including salt cod and the road system. Doesn't mean those freedom values are inherent in the religion, because they are not.

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

Try again

Slavery had been practiced and considered as the default norm by almost all major civilizations until Christianity came along. It was only abolished on a large scale when the white Christian men who held power abolished it.

If you actually believe this statement makes any significant or compelling point you are an idiot.

White Christian men did abolish slavery.

White Christian men also fought for slavery. Fortunately those white Christian men lost.

They also did all the farming, the banking, the card-playing, the eating of steaks. They caught all the fish. They made all the pants. They did everything. They took all the dumps. They painted all the barns. They acted in all the plays. Some were unionists, some were secessionists. Some were even left-handed!

Saying "white Christian men" did any one thing any trying to attribute universal significance or values to that is just stupid.

Want to be less stupid? Then read this article: How Christian Slaveholders Used the Bible to Justify Slavery. https://time.com/5171819/christianity-slavery-book-excerpt/

But I bet you don't want to be less stupid.

NP. Your response to the pp is shallow and facile on the face of it. Yes, Christians held slaves and justified it with bible passages--in the past. Then other Christians came along and abolished slavery--just like pp said--and today no Christians support slavery. What about that is hard to understand?

Believe me, there is NOTHING hard to understand about this point.

You didn't read the article linked, did you?

• 1 Timothy 6:1-2 - "Those who are under the yoke of slavery should regard their masters as deserving of all honor."

• Colossians 3:22 - "Slaves, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters."

• Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT "However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.

• Exodus 21:20-21 NAB When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.

• Ephesians 6:5 NLT "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. "

• Leviticus 25:44-46 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

Again you're deflecting with mostly OT cites. There's plenty in the New Testament that supports freeing slaves, but you're so obsessed and single-minded that you couldn't possibly contemplate that. PP's point was that Christians won abolition and, whatever you try to gish gallop about, pp's point still stands.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of our concepts of freedom that came out of the Enlightenment have Christian underpinnings. People - including many modern Christians - just don't want to remember that.

"Christian underpinnings..." nice equivocation so you don't get skewered again for saying they are christian inventions. Christianity is a critical part of european history and everything which comes from european history has "Christian underpinnings..." including salt cod and the road system. Doesn't mean those freedom values are inherent in the religion, because they are not.

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

Try again

Slavery had been practiced and considered as the default norm by almost all major civilizations until Christianity came along. It was only abolished on a large scale when the white Christian men who held power abolished it.

If you actually believe this statement makes any significant or compelling point you are an idiot.

White Christian men did abolish slavery.

White Christian men also fought for slavery. Fortunately those white Christian men lost.

They also did all the farming, the banking, the card-playing, the eating of steaks. They caught all the fish. They made all the pants. They did everything. They took all the dumps. They painted all the barns. They acted in all the plays. Some were unionists, some were secessionists. Some were even left-handed!

Saying "white Christian men" did any one thing any trying to attribute universal significance or values to that is just stupid.

Want to be less stupid? Then read this article: How Christian Slaveholders Used the Bible to Justify Slavery. https://time.com/5171819/christianity-slavery-book-excerpt/

But I bet you don't want to be less stupid.

Anonymous wrote:Several churches advocate for religious minorities, including the Baptist Joint Committee (BJC), and the National Council of Churches (NCC), among others.

Baptist Joint Committee (BJC):
This national faith-based group focuses on protecting religious freedom for all, working to build unity among diverse groups, both religious and secular, and advocating for religious freedom through legal action, lobbying, and education.

21Wilberforce:
This organization is a Christian human rights advocacy group that believes in the inherent dignity and equal rights of all people, including freedom of religion.

National Council of Churches (NCC):
The NCC calls upon all Christians in the U.S. to seek understanding of issues related to religious freedom and to promote strategies in their own churches and communities that better represent the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Baptist World Alliance (BWA):
The BWA has programs and initiatives related to human rights, including religious freedom monitoring and advocacy, and has relevant commissions, such as the Commission on Religious Freedom.

United Methodist Church:
The United Methodist Church acknowledges its historical failings in upholding religious freedom and states its commitment to religious freedom for all, opposing any claims to impose one set of religious beliefs onto others.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of our concepts of freedom that came out of the Enlightenment have Christian underpinnings. People - including many modern Christians - just don't want to remember that.

"Christian underpinnings..." nice equivocation so you don't get skewered again for saying they are christian inventions. Christianity is a critical part of european history and everything which comes from european history has "Christian underpinnings..." including salt cod and the road system. Doesn't mean those freedom values are inherent in the religion, because they are not.

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

Try again

Slavery had been practiced and considered as the default norm by almost all major civilizations until Christianity came along. It was only abolished on a large scale when the white Christian men who held power abolished it.

If you actually believe this statement makes any significant or compelling point you are an idiot.

White Christian men did abolish slavery.

White Christian men also fought for slavery. Fortunately those white Christian men lost.

They also did all the farming, the banking, the card-playing, the eating of steaks. They caught all the fish. They made all the pants. They did everything. They took all the dumps. They painted all the barns. They acted in all the plays. Some were unionists, some were secessionists. Some were even left-handed!

Saying "white Christian men" did any one thing any trying to attribute universal significance or values to that is just stupid.

Want to be less stupid? Then read this article: How Christian Slaveholders Used the Bible to Justify Slavery. https://time.com/5171819/christianity-slavery-book-excerpt/

But I bet you don't want to be less stupid.

NP. Your response to the pp is shallow and facile on the face of it. Yes, Christians held slaves and justified it with bible passages--in the past. Then other Christians came along and abolished slavery--just like pp said--and today no Christians support slavery. What about that is hard to understand?

Believe me, there is NOTHING hard to understand about this point.

You didn't read the article linked, did you?

• 1 Timothy 6:1-2 - "Those who are under the yoke of slavery should regard their masters as deserving of all honor."

• Colossians 3:22 - "Slaves, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters."

• Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT "However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.

• Exodus 21:20-21 NAB When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.

• Ephesians 6:5 NLT "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. "

• Leviticus 25:44-46 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of our concepts of freedom that came out of the Enlightenment have Christian underpinnings. People - including many modern Christians - just don't want to remember that.

"Christian underpinnings..." nice equivocation so you don't get skewered again for saying they are christian inventions. Christianity is a critical part of european history and everything which comes from european history has "Christian underpinnings..." including salt cod and the road system. Doesn't mean those freedom values are inherent in the religion, because they are not.

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

Try again

Slavery had been practiced and considered as the default norm by almost all major civilizations until Christianity came along. It was only abolished on a large scale when the white Christian men who held power abolished it.

If you actually believe this statement makes any significant or compelling point you are an idiot.

White Christian men did abolish slavery.

White Christian men also fought for slavery. Fortunately those white Christian men lost.

They also did all the farming, the banking, the card-playing, the eating of steaks. They caught all the fish. They made all the pants. They did everything. They took all the dumps. They painted all the barns. They acted in all the plays. Some were unionists, some were secessionists. Some were even left-handed!

Saying "white Christian men" did any one thing any trying to attribute universal significance or values to that is just stupid.

Want to be less stupid? Then read this article: How Christian Slaveholders Used the Bible to Justify Slavery. https://time.com/5171819/christianity-slavery-book-excerpt/

But I bet you don't want to be less stupid.

NP. Your response to the pp is shallow and facile on the face of it. Yes, Christians held slaves and justified it with bible passages--in the past. Then other Christians came along and abolished slavery--just like pp said--and today no Christians support slavery. What about that is hard to understand?