Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is outrageous. The purpose of academia is the steady expansion of hiring, funded by an increasing debt burden on younger generations. For Ttump to even slow this process is monstrous.

The portion of the “debt burden” on younger generations is less than 1/4 of 1%, as part of Education, Training, Employment, and Social Services.

Reset assured, the people of the State of California would gladly stop subsidizing the mouth breathing losers in red states with their contributions to the Treasury. But when they have to remit over $750 billion in federal taxes, only to realize $600 billion in federal funding, shitty acts taken by incompetent government actors lead to threads like this one.

Nevertheless, you’ll only squeal when they come for whatever part of the budget you think is worthwhile, which is probably rural subsidies and defense spending. Good luck with that, piker.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welp, it's been a good run. Seems like becoming the next Argentina is nearly a fait accompli at this point.

The notion that America is exceptional for some intangible or irrevocable reason has always been absurd. Our power and wealth came from our stable institutions, extensive use of soft power, and from the two industries where we had a massive structural advantages that were hard for any other country to overcome: academia and Hollywood. Stable government institutions are already starting to fail, soft power is gone, and the American cultural brand that supported Hollywood is on the outs. If we allow our best researchers to leave, then there's really nothing left to prevent us from becoming a middle-income country.

Academia and Hollywood were not the two industries that made America dominant in the 20th Century. It was the fact that Europe was destroyed in the wake of WWII, China hadn't risen as a world power, Russia couldn't match American industrial and manufacturing prowess, etc....

Maybe immediately post-WWII, but the last several decades of growth have been driven by America's particular ability to generate new ideas and then start businesses to capitalize on them. We dominated the early Internet because our we invented it with Federal researchers and academic grants, we dominate the tech sector because we import top talent from around the world and make it easier and more profitable for them to develop new ideas here than in their home countries, etc. We are competitive in many other sectors, despite our high labor costs, because of the cultural cachet that America has historically held in most of the world. An image marketed, among other things, by a multibillion dollar film industry that sells people on America's (traditional) ideals. All of those advantages are being dismantled, and we will be much poorer for it.

Btw, I picked Argentina specifically because it was as wealthy as Western Europe after WWII, but declined after an era of populism and instability. It's not an unlikely outcome for us at all.

DP Irony here is that the internet was born on one of those UC campuses.

RIP America as we’ve known it.

I deplore the current assault on research, academia and free speech but the internet was not born on a UC campus -

Tim Berners-Lee, a British scientist, invented the WWW in 1989, while working at CERN on the French Swiss border near Geneva (CEarN is the European Organization for Nuclear Research and subatomic physics in Switzerland).

The irony is that the web was originally conceived and developed to help scientists and researchers in universities and institutes around the world to share info more efficiently. Berners-Lee idealistically shared the IP for free in order to promote sharing of science and knowledge that would help humanity.

Tragically the internet has devolved a cesspool of misinformation contributing to anti democratic trends in Europe and US. Russia and China spend trillions of misinformation in order to manipulate less educated Western citizens towards authoritarian isolationism.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welp, it's been a good run. Seems like becoming the next Argentina is nearly a fait accompli at this point.

The notion that America is exceptional for some intangible or irrevocable reason has always been absurd. Our power and wealth came from our stable institutions, extensive use of soft power, and from the two industries where we had a massive structural advantages that were hard for any other country to overcome: academia and Hollywood. Stable government institutions are already starting to fail, soft power is gone, and the American cultural brand that supported Hollywood is on the outs. If we allow our best researchers to leave, then there's really nothing left to prevent us from becoming a middle-income country.

Academia and Hollywood were not the two industries that made America dominant in the 20th Century. It was the fact that Europe was destroyed in the wake of WWII, China hadn't risen as a world power, Russia couldn't match American industrial and manufacturing prowess, etc....

Maybe immediately post-WWII, but the last several decades of growth have been driven by America's particular ability to generate new ideas and then start businesses to capitalize on them. We dominated the early Internet because our we invented it with Federal researchers and academic grants, we dominate the tech sector because we import top talent from around the world and make it easier and more profitable for them to develop new ideas here than in their home countries, etc. We are competitive in many other sectors, despite our high labor costs, because of the cultural cachet that America has historically held in most of the world. An image marketed, among other things, by a multibillion dollar film industry that sells people on America's (traditional) ideals. All of those advantages are being dismantled, and we will be much poorer for it.

Btw, I picked Argentina specifically because it was as wealthy as Western Europe after WWII, but declined after an era of populism and instability. It's not an unlikely outcome for us at all.

DP Irony here is that the internet was born on one of those UC campuses.

RIP America as we’ve known it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm fine with academia not getting any federal funds. Especially research, there is a pervasive attitude that Americans aren't interested, and they need H-1B. Let the foreigners pay for their own research and skills. Quit training our competition that is what I say.

I could see if the whole academic H-1b worked the way it was sold to us. EG We don't have specific skills, they bring in professors to teach us the skills. However, that isn't the way it works. The H-1b they bring in are horrible at transferring knowledge to Americans, they take lower wages then drive out Americans, and bring in more foreigners, "Because Americans aren't interested."

Bringing in Foreigners to teach us skills, only makes sense if we're actually interested in the skills. Who is going to study for twenty years to work in a cubicle for a median wage and long hours? Bus drivers and plumber's make more money and have more job security.

This is the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

The current administration is questioning whether it is necessary for the U.S. taxpayer to fund various research projects, particularly at universities with large endowments who can easily afford to fund such projects on their own. Likewise, the current administration is freezing funds from going to universities that refuse to enforce their own rules against antisemitism or who are breaking federal law.

No university is entitled to Federal funds.

When can we expect the current administration (and you) to stop with this anti-semitism DEI bullshit and focus instead on discrimination of any person?

The only DEI you seem to have a stomach for is this anti-semitism obsession …

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, the University of California, *not* all of academia.

Harvard, Princeton, Penn, University of Pittsburgh, University of Vermont …

All have sizeable endowments. Crack open that checkbook.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm fine with academia not getting any federal funds. Especially research, there is a pervasive attitude that Americans aren't interested, and they need H-1B. Let the foreigners pay for their own research and skills. Quit training our competition that is what I say.

I could see if the whole academic H-1b worked the way it was sold to us. EG We don't have specific skills, they bring in professors to teach us the skills. However, that isn't the way it works. The H-1b they bring in are horrible at transferring knowledge to Americans, they take lower wages then drive out Americans, and bring in more foreigners, "Because Americans aren't interested."

Bringing in Foreigners to teach us skills, only makes sense if we're actually interested in the skills. Who is going to study for twenty years to work in a cubicle for a median wage and long hours? Bus drivers and plumber's make more money and have more job security.

This is the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

The current administration is questioning whether it is necessary for the U.S. taxpayer to fund various research projects, particularly at universities with large endowments who can easily afford to fund such projects on their own. Likewise, the current administration is freezing funds from going to universities that refuse to enforce their own rules against antisemitism or who are breaking federal law.

No university is entitled to Federal funds.

When can we expect the current administration (and you) to stop with this anti-semitism DEI bullshit and focus instead on discrimination of any person?

The only DEI you seem to have a stomach for is this anti-semitism obsession …

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welp, it's been a good run. Seems like becoming the next Argentina is nearly a fait accompli at this point.

The notion that America is exceptional for some intangible or irrevocable reason has always been absurd. Our power and wealth came from our stable institutions, extensive use of soft power, and from the two industries where we had a massive structural advantages that were hard for any other country to overcome: academia and Hollywood. Stable government institutions are already starting to fail, soft power is gone, and the American cultural brand that supported Hollywood is on the outs. If we allow our best researchers to leave, then there's really nothing left to prevent us from becoming a middle-income country.

Academia and Hollywood were not the two industries that made America dominant in the 20th Century. It was the fact that Europe was destroyed in the wake of WWII, China hadn't risen as a world power, Russia couldn't match American industrial and manufacturing prowess, etc....

Maybe immediately post-WWII, but the last several decades of growth have been driven by America's particular ability to generate new ideas and then start businesses to capitalize on them. We dominated the early Internet because our we invented it with Federal researchers and academic grants, we dominate the tech sector because we import top talent from around the world and make it easier and more profitable for them to develop new ideas here than in their home countries, etc. We are competitive in many other sectors, despite our high labor costs, because of the cultural cachet that America has historically held in most of the world. An image marketed, among other things, by a multibillion dollar film industry that sells people on America's (traditional) ideals. All of those advantages are being dismantled, and we will be much poorer for it.

Btw, I picked Argentina specifically because it was as wealthy as Western Europe after WWII, but declined after an era of populism and instability. It's not an unlikely outcome for us at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welp, it's been a good run. Seems like becoming the next Argentina is nearly a fait accompli at this point.

The notion that America is exceptional for some intangible or irrevocable reason has always been absurd. Our power and wealth came from our stable institutions, extensive use of soft power, and from the two industries where we had a massive structural advantages that were hard for any other country to overcome: academia and Hollywood. Stable government institutions are already starting to fail, soft power is gone, and the American cultural brand that supported Hollywood is on the outs. If we allow our best researchers to leave, then there's really nothing left to prevent us from becoming a middle-income country.

Academia and Hollywood were not the two industries that made America dominant in the 20th Century. It was the fact that Europe was destroyed in the wake of WWII, China hadn't risen as a world power, Russia couldn't match American industrial and manufacturing prowess, etc....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm fine with academia not getting any federal funds. Especially research, there is a pervasive attitude that Americans aren't interested, and they need H-1B. Let the foreigners pay for their own research and skills. Quit training our competition that is what I say.

I could see if the whole academic H-1b worked the way it was sold to us. EG We don't have specific skills, they bring in professors to teach us the skills. However, that isn't the way it works. The H-1b they bring in are horrible at transferring knowledge to Americans, they take lower wages then drive out Americans, and bring in more foreigners, "Because Americans aren't interested."

Bringing in Foreigners to teach us skills, only makes sense if we're actually interested in the skills. Who is going to study for twenty years to work in a cubicle for a median wage and long hours? Bus drivers and plumber's make more money and have more job security.

This is the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

The current administration is questioning whether it is necessary for the U.S. taxpayer to fund various research projects, particularly at universities with large endowments who can easily afford to fund such projects on their own. Likewise, the current administration is freezing funds from going to universities that refuse to enforce their own rules against antisemitism or who are breaking federal law.

No university is entitled to Federal funds.

Nobody is entitled to anything, except for Social Security. But the United States should fund research universities, for many reasons.

Most of us know that. Are you Lutnick or Bessent trying to sell your "Mar-A-Largo Accord"?

But what "should" the U.S. Government fund? And even if it "should" fund a particular program, must it do so if the university fails to enforce its own rules against antisemitism or is breaking federal law?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm fine with academia not getting any federal funds. Especially research, there is a pervasive attitude that Americans aren't interested, and they need H-1B. Let the foreigners pay for their own research and skills. Quit training our competition that is what I say.

I could see if the whole academic H-1b worked the way it was sold to us. EG We don't have specific skills, they bring in professors to teach us the skills. However, that isn't the way it works. The H-1b they bring in are horrible at transferring knowledge to Americans, they take lower wages then drive out Americans, and bring in more foreigners, "Because Americans aren't interested."

Bringing in Foreigners to teach us skills, only makes sense if we're actually interested in the skills. Who is going to study for twenty years to work in a cubicle for a median wage and long hours? Bus drivers and plumber's make more money and have more job security.

This is the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

The current administration is questioning whether it is necessary for the U.S. taxpayer to fund various research projects, particularly at universities with large endowments who can easily afford to fund such projects on their own. Likewise, the current administration is freezing funds from going to universities that refuse to enforce their own rules against antisemitism or who are breaking federal law.

No university is entitled to Federal funds.

Anonymous wrote:Welp, it's been a good run. Seems like becoming the next Argentina is nearly a fait accompli at this point.

The notion that America is exceptional for some intangible or irrevocable reason has always been absurd. Our power and wealth came from our stable institutions, extensive use of soft power, and from the two industries where we had a massive structural advantages that were hard for any other country to overcome: academia and Hollywood. Stable government institutions are already starting to fail, soft power is gone, and the American cultural brand that supported Hollywood is on the outs. If we allow our best researchers to leave, then there's really nothing left to prevent us from becoming a middle-income country.

Anonymous wrote:Welp, it's been a good run. Seems like becoming the next Argentina is nearly a fait accompli at this point.

The notion that America is exceptional for some intangible or irrevocable reason has always been absurd. Our power and wealth came from our stable institutions, extensive use of soft power, and from the two industries where we had a massive structural advantages that were hard for any other country to overcome: academia and Hollywood. Stable government institutions are already starting to fail, soft power is gone, and the American cultural brand that supported Hollywood is on the outs. If we allow our best researchers to leave, then there's really nothing left to prevent us from becoming a middle-income country.